Non-Circulating vs. Circulating Commemorative [opgelost]

Hello,

This topic has been brought about by this thread. The debate boils down to this question: should coins released for face value be listed as non-circulating or circulating commemorative? I believe this also applied to coins with the same technical details as circulation coins, but with a different design (example).

For clarity sake, an upvote is for changing the catalog and a downvote is for leaving the catalog as is

The distinction between both types of commemorative coins should be indicated.

Circulating commemorative coins are exactly what they are - commemorative coins that can be found in circulation in change at their face value.

Non-circulating commemorative coins are also known as ‘N.C.L.T.’ - or ‘Medal-Coins’ - as they don't circulate, & are offered at a premium way above their nominal face value.

Aidan.

Some_Nerd, your example above is a completly different case than the one from original topic… 

Australia coin 20c (as in example) was issued in card for a price around 10$… this is obviously non-circulated, even it's with circulating standard. Putting it into circulation is technically possible but only with lose (10$ - 20c).

The coin from original topic is Polish 5zł that is avaliable without any packaging on all 16 offices of Polish National Bank for face value = 5zl (I paid 100pln for 20 pieces, then I spend some of then in shop). Mintage is 1 million. This is circulation commemorative, in my opinion.

I voted to not change and keep as it is in both cases (Australia keep as not circulating, Poland - keep as commemorative circulating).

If the coins released are legal tender, or have a status similar to non-commemorative standard issue coinage - that is, they are money, then they should be listed as circulating commemorative:
Examples:
1. UK Royal Mint Two Pound commemorative coins which are released into circulation. Some of these have relatively low mintages.
2. Irish 2 Euro commemorative coins, which circulate alongside standard design 2 euro coins.

To my understanding, a non-circulating commemorative coin is a coin not intended for circulation, such as the commemorative Euro denominated coinage issued by the Central Bank of Ireland. These Irish coins tend to have face values which are outside of the standard coin face values used in the Euro system.
Example: 
1. 5 Euro International Polar Year

N#13600

Whether or not a commemorative coins is sold above its face value is not relevant. If it can be removed from its packaging and spent at its face value, then it is a circulating commemorative coin.

MMowiec

Some_Nerd, your example above is a completly different case than the one from original topic… 

 

Australia coin 20c (as in example) was issued in card for a price around 10$… this is obviously non-circulated, even it's with circulating standard. Putting it into circulation is technically possible but only with lose (10$ - 20c).

 

The coin from original topic is Polish 5zł that is avaliable without any packaging on all 16 offices of Polish National Bank for face value = 5zl (I paid 100pln for 20 pieces, then I spend some of then in shop). Mintage is 1 million. This is circulation commemorative, in my opinion.

 

I agree. This 5zł is a circulating commemorative coin. 

If NBP is releasing the coins into circulation from its offices at face value, then they are surely a circulating coin. 

I will make an attempt to obtain some of them this summer - my nearest NBP branch is in Olsztyn. 

I believe if a coin is available for anyone to obtain at face value it is a circulating coin. Whether it is a commemorative or not makes no difference.

If a coin is only available in a coincard or special set and it retails at above face value it is NCLT.

This however does throw up some anomalies. Here in  Australia we get coloured $2 coins released in nice fancy sets at Woolworths supermarkets at a price above face value. Typically 5 coins (face value $10) for a premium price of $15. However the same coloured $2 coins are also issued individualy from the tills as change for cash transactions.

In those instances I catalogue them as circulation coins  but also create a  mintage line for the coins in sets.

brismike

In those instances I catalogue them as circulation coins  but also create a  mintage line for the coins in sets.

 

Yes - a good point. 

In Ireland sets of polished specimens are sometimes produced by the Central Bank (as distinct from proof sets), and also sets of Uncirculated coins, which are sometimes broken up by collectors to extract the scarcer dates.

Hibernia

brismike

In those instances I catalogue them as circulation coins  but also create a  mintage line for the coins in sets.

 

Yes - a good point. 

 

In Ireland sets of polished specimens are sometimes produced by the Central Bank (as distinct from proof sets), and also sets of Uncirculated coins, which are sometimes broken up by collectors to extract the scarcer dates.

The 1985 & 1986 ½ Penny from Ireland can be found in those sets - along with the 1986 10 & 50 Pence coins.

Those are the only coins from the 1969 to 2000 series I need to complete them.

Aidan.

It is not a simple subject, and even more now with the curious way of understanding the numismatics that the different Mints have, wrapping the coins to get a higher price.

There are curious examples, such as the 50 Euro Cent from Germany:

N#6320

That we held it in high regard, classifying it as a "Non-circulating coin", until 2022 arrived and they decided to make a larger mintage and not sell it in cases, for which we have had to "downgrade" it and now it is a simple "Circulating coin". Curious how the same coin changes category.

I am personally ok with these coins being listed as “circulating commemorative.” Just expect people to get fussy over it, such as the Americans with the $1 coin.

I have to disagree with some of your opinions. to me, a circulating commemorative coin has to have the following attributes:

Issued by a real ruling authority

Actually intended for circulation

Released (or at least supposed to) into circulation by the ruling authority

Not instantly demonetised (look at Uruguay as a bad example)

Coins that are not meant to be released into circulation, even if they can be bought, do not count. They do not really circulate, are barely possible to find and highly unusual

Even if they (and most NCLT in that case) can technically be spent, their original purpose is for collectors, making them NCLT 

Some_Nerd

Just expect people to get fussy over it, such as the Americans with the $1 coin.

As far as I can see you can't get them at face from a first party after they stopped putting them out there in the wild the normal way. A roll of 25 cost $34.50 on the mint website (shipping not included). So they wouldn't change to circulating CCs. But I don't know if you can go to a bank flop a 1 dollar bill on the counter and exchange it for a brass round.

Idolenz

As far as I can see you can't get them at face from a first party after they stopped putting them out there in the wild the normal way. A roll of 25 cost $34.50 on the mint website (shipping not included). So they wouldn't change to circulating CCs. But I don't know if you can go to a bank flop a 1 dollar bill on the counter and exchange it for a brass round.

Guess I stand corrected 🙃

A good example of mis-categorization is the Austrian 25 Schillings from 1956 (N#12427)

How on Earth can a coin with a mint of 5 million  in a country of (then) less than 7 million people be intended for collectors?! In 1956 when NCLTs were almost inexistant.

To my humble opinion, any coin (not bullion), minted in more than half a million pieces, should be moved to “circulating”, especially when we see them in grades less than XF.

We have it described here. https://en.numista.com/help/type-108.html