Idrisid or Abbasid Fals?

Hi,

I recently got this coin

I think it's Abbasid or Idrisid Fals, what do you think?

Lettering:
Obverse;

لا إله إلا
الله وحده
لا شريك له

Reverse:

محمد
رسول
الله
 

Metal: Copper

Weight: about 5.28 g

Diameter: about 18 mm

Any help would be greatly appreciated ;)

Regards

Wulioh

Hard to say. Your coin is in very poor shape and I can't get past the unusual weight for it's diameter. Are you sure about 5+grams @ 18mm and copper composition? How thick is this coin?

Hello, thank you for the answer.

Frankly, I'm not sure about copper, the weight about 5.28 g, thick is about 2.5 mm

Regards

Wulioh

Ok my friend, I simply cannot find an exact match but this is as close as I could come given the condition of your coin  here on Numista,  Zeno, and other reference sites . The weight and composition still presents a problem that I can not make sense of.  The diameter and corresponding weight would suggest  another heavier metal such as bronze or gold  in my mind. It is very heavy relative to it's size.  You may have a new type undocumented in both catalogs. Perhaps others can better pinpoint exactly what you have. Good luck with it.

N#357704

https://islamiccoins.ancients.info/abbasid/ABBASID_CALIPHS.htm

Thank you so much my friend

harryg

Hard to say. Your coin is in very poor shape and I can't get past the unusual weight for it's diameter. Are you sure about 5+grams @ 18mm and copper composition? How thick is this coin?

There is  a pattern on weight and diameter on Abbsid/Umayyad coins? I always tought as useless information since the identification would need the legend in the border

Yes of course there is a correlation and pattern between composition, weight, and diameter as with any type coin. They are simply general  clues and pieces to the puzzle to help with identification  along with script and legend. Look at some examples of  Abbasid copper coins for instance where the weight and diameter are known and indicated and almost all copper examples between the rough diameter of 16 - 20 mm weigh between 2 and 3g, some thinner, some thicker with a few exceptions. Yes, many copper varieties weigh in the 5+g range but their diameters are not listed nor do they match or even resemble the script of the OP's coin. The OP's coin at 18mm and 5.24g is hard to attribute especially with most of the legend obliterated.

These examples where composition, weight and diameter are known for instance: Do you not see a general correlation?

N#143515

N#104310

N#304881

N#153391

N#264594

 Certainly nowhere near 18mm and 5.25g.

The coins I could find with similar script and account for the heavier weight at that range of diameter were all silver or gold coins. I don't believe the OP's coin is either.

Indeed the range and correlation of weight and diameter of the OP coin is out the limits of Abbasid coins.

There are some heavier on Zeno, but I think still being all Abbasid.

https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=22619

After some researches, I found in Numista some Abbasid Fals that exceed 5 grams

N#82319

N#82296

N#82300

N#82304

N#83955

wulioh

After some researches, I found in Numista some Abbasid Fals that exceed 5 grams

 

N#82319

N#82296

N#82300

N#82304

N#83955

 

Agreed, I saw those too but as I said in my previous comment not one has a diameter to reference relative to 18mm and weight as you said your coin was and none of them are a good match for your coin. Thus the problem solving your request for identification relative to script. weight and diameter. We have some really good detectives here on Numista on these coin types and I see nobody else has offered a solution. 

Numista is very limited with old coins, you can browse Zeno.ru, there are thounds there, broad variation of sizes and weights, so it is why I think the legend in the border is the only thing you can have for a better identification.

Without that: abbasid anonymous.

If you read my previous comments, I searched Zeno, thoroughly, among other reference sites. I could not find it there nor anywhere else so far and already suggested that it could be a new type / anonymous. We want to be sure we are not missing something that soemone else could point out. Still, nothing. Waiting for others to suggest perhaps another reference site or their opinions.

Thank you all for help friends

Idrisid or Abbasid Fals?

Hi, better to post coin  to the Zeno in the section “ help to identify ”. all respected  researchers and proffies  registered there, including Stephen Album himself, who frequently  post comments, helping all to  identify their coins. 

there is quit an idiot and archaic  procedure of registration, - you  have to write an email to the owner.  but it  worth, if You  are interesting in Islamic coinage. 

best

David

thank you so much