After a week away, I came back to my new home in southern Ontario to find a number of small packages… Here is a damaged but still very interesting store note by the Price Brothers who were (if I'm not mistaken) mostly involved in tree cutting and processing (wood construction materials):
Were employees paid in store notes? This practice was common in the 19th and even early 20th century. If so, the employees had no way out since their pay was tied to their own employer's store in the backwoods. The employer benefited twice, first from the workers manual labor and then from them spending their “money” in the employer's own store. This exploitative practice was eventually forbidden by law (late 19th- and early 20th century).
EDIT — Another possible explanation for the company to produce these notes was that there was so little cash around that it was easier to just print one's own money. There are other notes in this series, such as this one which I got in 2021, with serial number 2:
Note that 5 chelins (5 shillings) = $1, and 6 pence = 12 sous courants (12 French sous currency). This would mean that the “sous courant”, a French non-decimal fraction of the livre, was circulating at the same rate as the US cent (a decimal value).
After a week away, I came back to my new home in southern Ontario to find a number of small packages… Here is a damaged but still very interesting store note by the Price Brothers who were (if I'm not mistaken) mostly involved in tree cutting and processing (wood construction materials):
Were employees paid in store notes? This practice was common in the 19th and even early 20th century. If so, the employees had no way out since their pay was tied to their own employer's store in the backwoods. The employer benefited twice, first from the workers manual labor and then from them spending their “money” in the employer's own store. This exploitative practice was eventually forbidden by law (late 19th- and early 20th century).
Congratulations on your new abode.
Nice note and interesting facts.
When is the house warming - I will join you with wine from Sjoelunds cellar.
Thx BluHawk for the good words. Wine is always a good idea.
Here is a more modest acquisition, though a rather scarce coin:
I find it quite fascinating that a coin could circulate so long as to get in this state, and we actually had discussions about this here on Numista. Maybe I'll eventually upgrade, maybe not…
We had “Farmers Co - ops” in some areas doing this as late as the 1930s, handing out worthless tokens on pay day, they used to pay for goods at company stores. Usually marked up prices. Depression era food stamps.
In nearly every case, only “farm workers” and “sharemilkers” had to use them. The rich squattocracy had real money. The 40/- was the highest face value one and it was a cupro nickel token 32mm in size. Average wages in 1930 for a farm worker were 30/- a week, so that is why the token is scarce compared to the 20 and 10/- and the brass 1/- to 5/-. Values below 1/- were paid in proper coinage.
I bought some nice British crowns - however all of these are cleaned or worn.
1818 - Year LIX - Very nice coin (Historically cleaned and scratched). EF condition - first year usage of George and Dragon on a British silver coin (It appeared in Gold coins a year earlier). Would be nicer if not cleaned though.
1887 - Jubilee coin, the first year of the 1887 - 1900 crown series, Jubilee crowns had milled edges unlike the 1893 - 1900 ones and this coin is near EF, but again cleaned and polished. It completes my silver Jubilee head coins of 1887.
The joker of the pack, this 1927 wreath crown started as a Proof coin and meant to only be part of a proof set. But it got used and used a lot. A catalogue I have says coins of this type below VF are rare and this one is worn down to between VG and Fine! This amount of wear suggests the coin was used into the 1940s or 1950s, or more likely a Pocket piece as it has the smoothness of a former proof. Tails is a bit nicer than heads.
Here is how these coins usually look in contrast. - so this one has been used a lot!!!!
The only good thing about my worn crown, is that its still rare as still only 15k were made and ones worn down to VG must be practically unique. High grade proofs like the coin above go for $500 - $1000, the VG coin cost me just $135.
EDIT: I uploaded the wrong image of the reverse of the better 1927 Crown, the coin uploaded and devised as a fake was a genuine Proff 1927 HALFcrown - The file names were similar 1927ProofC2 and 1927ProofHC2.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Nice additions, Moneytane. I don't know whether you leave your cleaned coins “in the open” (inside the house, but outside any holder) for some time to let them gain back some natural toning?
Re: co-op tokens — This is very interesting. This exploitative practice was quite universal. I know it as well from Trinidad and Tobago, where a law was passed in the early 1920s to forbid the practice. The “victims” of this scheme worked in the plantations, mainly sugarcane.
Indeed, the lettering and how it lines up with the portrait is a dead give away. Make a horizontal line from the nose out to the edge and it lines up with different letters. Make vertical lines up from the G in George and the X in rex and they line up wildly differently.
It's not fake - I accidentally put the wrong picture up, that image is of the Halfcrown!!
Here is the real picture
I usually keep each denomination in a different folder, but bundled the crowns in with halfcrowns as I only have about 10 English crowns and you can see how easy it was to choose the Halfcrown picture in place of the Crown one. I am assuming all you people who thought it was fake - probably picked up the “fake” coin was smaller.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
I bought some nice British crowns - however all of these are cleaned or worn.
1818 - Year LIX - Very nice coin (Historically cleaned and scratched). EF condition - first year usage of George and Dragon on a British silver coin (It appeared in Gold coins a year earlier). Would be nicer if not cleaned though.
The joker of the pack, this 1927 wreath crown started as a Proof coin and meant to only be part of a proof set. But it got used and used a lot. A catalogue I have says coins of this type below VF are rare and this one is worn down to between VG and Fine! This amount of wear suggests the coin was used into the 1940s or 1950s, or more likely a Pocket piece as it has the smoothness of a former proof. Tails is a bit nicer than heads.
Here is how these coins usually look in contrast. - so this one has been used a lot!!!!
The only good thing about my worn crown, is that its still rare as still only 15k were made and ones worn down to VG must be practically unique. High grade proofs like the coin above go for $500 - $1000, the VG coin cost me just $135.
EDIT: I uploaded the wrong image of the reverse of the better 1927 Crown, the coin uploaded and devised as a fake was a genuine Proff 1927 HALFcrown - The file names were similar 1927ProofC2 and 1927ProofHC2.
very nice. I am missing the Christmas crown as well as an EVII piece. then I'll work my way to WIIII and older! Hard on the wallet though
After a week away, I came back to my new home in southern Ontario to find a number of small packages… Here is a damaged but still very interesting store note by the Price Brothers who were (if I'm not mistaken) mostly involved in tree cutting and processing (wood construction materials):
Were employees paid in store notes? This practice was common in the 19th and even early 20th century. If so, the employees had no way out since their pay was tied to their own employer's store in the backwoods. The employer benefited twice, first from the workers manual labor and then from them spending their “money” in the employer's own store. This exploitative practice was eventually forbidden by law (late 19th- and early 20th century).
EDIT — Another possible explanation for the company to produce these notes was that there was so little cash around that it was easier to just print one's own money. There are other notes in this series, such as this one which I got in 2021, with serial number 2:
Note that 5 chelins (5 shillings) = $1, and 6 pence = 12 sous courants (12 French sous currency). This would mean that the “sous courant”, a French non-decimal fraction of the livre, was circulating at the same rate as the US cent (a decimal value).
That’s a super nice note - and very interesting imo. Two colour printing is also a nice touch.
Similar store notes were in use in Finland in the early part of the 20th Century up to 1922, and also in Poland during the same period.
As far as I know, they were issued in response to a shortage of low denomination coinage, as was the case in Ireland in the late 1700s to early 1800s.
Regarding the currency units, Guernsey also had an interesting relationship with the French Livre Tournois, and continued to use it after France had introduced the Franc in place of it.
Guernsey’s Livre was linked to the gold standard which caused it to gradually become worth more than the French Livre. When France allowed the Franc to devalue and then replaced the silver Franc with the paper Franc, Guernsey decided to break the link to the French Franc and link to Sterling instead in 1921.
Here is a Guernsey note denominated in Shillings and Francs N#336304
Because it is so close to France, Guernsey has had a lot of French influence in its currency, and mostly French coinage (as well as the some coins from further afield, Netherlands and Spain being the most common) circulated there, relying on the stable value of silver for interexchangeability with English coin. The earliest French coin I have heard mention of as being found in Guernsey is a 1608 coin of Henri iv of France.
Jersey also had a lot of French influence - here is an interesting Jersey note denominated in Livres and Pounds:
If I'm not mistaken, French is still an official language in both Jersey and Guernsey. They were part of Normandy until the successors of William I abandoned mainland Normandy to the French but retained the Channel Islands.
I won a lot of three Canadian Tire coupons:
The 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 cent values were abandoned long ago and 5 cents became the smallest value.
This was one of the most successful coupon promotions ever and lasted for decades. But the scheme, not surprisingly, was abandoned in this age of virtual money and digital points.
Would you publish or PM the remaining 4 coins or do you want to win the challenge yourself?
they are listed on my profile, I check the details on the coins' pages regularly to see who has the year, and I have contacted everyone I could already - some answer, some don't.. 🤷
If I'm not mistaken, French is still an official language in both Jersey and Guernsey. They were part of Normandy until the successors of William I abandoned mainland Normandy to the French but retained the Channel Islands.
I won a lot of three Canadian Tire coupons:
The 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 cent values were abandoned long ago and 5 cents became the smallest value.
This was one of the most successful coupon promotions ever and lasted for decades. But the scheme, not surprisingly, was abandoned in this age of virtual money and digital points.
haha! I love Canadian Tire! in the '00 decade I spent some time in Kingston Ontario working on sailboats. You could get anything at Canadian Tire.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Nice additions 👆👆👆 SilverQueen, Mr. Midnight, Stephan0205, and darcyrmt.
As for CT money, I have for well over $200 to sort. Probably most of it is going to be used in the store, but for sure I will save some notes, including at least a few varieties of the $1 notes (I have over $150 just in $1 notes). A perfect gift for Xmas would be the Charlton catalogue of CT money, but nobody in the family is going to think about this. They would probably laugh at the idea that someone was crazy enough to publish a catalogue with the “effigy” of Sandy McIntyre (get it?) on the cover…
My birthday was this past Saturday and to celebrate I visited a LCS and picked up a few new silver coins. Well, new to me.
Please pardon the picture quality, my phone camera isn't very good. Luckily since they're all lower grades or have some sort of damage (a scratch across the obverse of the Barber in the top left and some heavy cleaning on the Walking Liberty on the bottom right) I was able to get all of these for a pretty good price. Readers may notice an outlier with all of these coins, the Victorian florin in the top right. I've yet to come into possession of (until now) a silver coin featuring Victoria (all I had before were farthings, halfpence, and pence) and I love the Gothic font on the reverse and the beautiful coat of arms.
I suppose the gods of chance favored me that day since I won all the money I spent right back at the casino later that day. Overall I had a great day and I'm glad to share my new coins with you all.
Nice. Your florin is the first circulation issue of this new denomination and “pre-gothic”. But I always liked British coins for the “fonts” they used, including the thick, bold legends on this 1849 issue.
“ONE TENTH OF A POUND” … but it would take another 120+ years for the UK to go decimal.
Nice. Your florin is the first circulation issue of this new denomination and “pre-gothic”. But I always liked British coins for the “fonts” they used, including the thick, bold legends on this 1849 issue.
“ONE TENTH OF A POUND” … but it would take another 120+ years for the UK to go decimal.
You're right, he had a few other florins from later years that had the Gothic font but after you pointed it I see now that the one I have has a more standard font. I'll have to go back and see if I can get a Gothic florin as well. 😁
It's strange how it took them so long to decimalize their currency. One thing I often heard sited when reading about it is that it would have been “too confusing” for people to learn compared to the £sd system. Brits, huh…
It's interesting that some old timers would love to return to the Sterling system. This is baffling to me. Sure, the 12d = 1s and 20s = £1 gives you the number 240 (12 X 20), which is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, etc. but that's not much of a plus compared to the easiness with which you can divide and multiply in the decimal system. OK… not by 3…
In colonies where they were accustomed to the US decimal dollar but officially supplied with British currency, they at times tried to get their own decimal coinage from the mother country, such as in mid-19th century Trinidad, but such requests usually failed.
Some coins also recently but just freshly areived some literature that I was still missing.
Perfect for the colder season ahead.
If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.
For my part I bought a lot on eBay last night of the type I would normally not care much for. Yet there is a coin in there that caught my eye (seller's pics):
And no: the coin I'm most interested in is not the damaged and cleaned Magdalen Island penny (top right), though of course at first sight it's the most interesting piece in the lot even in this condition. No — the piece that I find most interesting is this one:
Perhaps a collector of Canadian colonial tokens would know what this is? Hint: the Charlton catalogue mentions their existence, but doesn't actually list them. They exist also for the George IV series of Nova Scotia tokens.
BCNumismatics, what's special about the token is that it's actually a cast forgery. I already had one just as bad (most probably from the same “mint”) imitating the George IV issues of Nova Scotia tokens.
It's pretty bad and in fact it obviously didn't get much love from the public because all these casts are quite scarce.
BCNumismatics, what's special about the token is that it's actually a cast forgery. I already had one just as bad (most probably from the same “mint”) imitating the George IV issues of Nova Scotia tokens.
It's pretty bad and in fact it obviously didn't get much love from the public because all these casts are quite scarce.
The forgeries circulated at the same time as the real ones - which makes them well worth listing in a catalogue.
Just yesterday I received something quite interesting in my change.
This 1906 V Nickel! It's certainly seen better days but wow! I never imagined one of these would still be in circulation. What do you all think, was this from someone's collection? Was this sitting in a bank? Has it really been traveling around for 117 years undetected? I doubt the last scenario is the case haha, but that's the one I choose to believe because it's the most fun.
Czech Lion 2023 "Czech lions" – investment coins of the Czech Mint – are used to deposit funds in precious metals, but their elaborate relief also attracts anyone who wants to expand their numismatic collection or give an exceptional gift. The beauty of the silver coin with the year 2023 is underlined by the double plating – rare gold and unusual black platinum.
An extraordinary variant of the Czech Lion investment coin stands out with a well-thought-out play of colors that is not often seen in coinage. The silver embossing is covered with a layer of black platinum – a noble material that, compared to silver or gold, is characterized by higher hardness, density and resistance. The central relief is then selectively gilded, which gives the coin a striking contrasting appearance.
The reverse side of the coin is dominated by a gilded motif – an unusually realistic Czech lion guarding the Crown of St. Wenceslas. The obverse side presents linden branches and an eagle, which is a synthesis of the St. Wenceslas, Moravian and Silesian birds of prey. The author of the relief is the traditional medalist Asamat Baltaev, DiS. Since the coins of the Czech Mint are issued under the license of a foreign issuer, which is the island of Niue, their obverse side also bears its necessary attributes – the national emblem, the nominal value of 2 DOLLARS (NZD) and the year of issue 2023.
I am writing the nonsense of communism on a numismatic forum and in the meantime the post office brought me this wonderful gem of numismatics -Yes, it's a national pride, "Czech Lion", but why the publisher is New Zealand - that's confusing, fellow New Zealander - best regards.😁
Nice additions, MIMAEL and Gothic Florin 👆👆👆 — and liumin, wow, a 1906 nickel in circulation!!
I would think it had been taken out of circulation long ago but mistakenly mixed with pocket change… or else the collector had a kid who discovered the magic of vending machines…
I once used a dateless buffalo nickel in a small take out stand in New York but the owner didn't put that one in the till with the rest.
Main stars of the show are these 2,3 and 5 Mark coins from Prussia that I bought for £70.
Then I got all these coins from bags that were £1 each I think I bought 9 or 10, the ones in the pink box were the main lot but most were coins that are not often found in bulk world coins such as pre 1939 Swiss 20 Rappen coins, 1800s French, Silver and quite a lot of pre WW2 Belgian coinage.
Hi to whoever is reading this. Did you know that TYPEWRITER (on a QWERTY keyboard) is the longest word you can type using only the letters on one row of the keyboard.
Just yesterday I received something quite interesting in my change.
This 1906 V Nickel! It's certainly seen better days but wow! I never imagined one of these would still be in circulation. What do you all think, was this from someone's collection? Was this sitting in a bank? Has it really been traveling around for 117 years undetected? I doubt the last scenario is the case haha, but that's the one I choose to believe because it's the most fun.
Wonderful! I love hearing about these finds. I haven't gotten a Liberty nickle in 40 years or more, but I did get an Indian head cent that old in this decade. Anything you can imagine, has probably happened to an old coin.🤔
Speaking of found-in-change, I spotted this in the need-a-penny dish at the local mini-market, I think it was this month, or it might have been in October, the cashier thought it had been passed for a nickle and had tossed it in the dish when she discovered it in her drawer. She thought it might be from France and didn't know what metal it was made of! She let me have it an I tossed a good nickle in its place.
A couple pieces I picked up at my coin club auction. I didn’t even know what a silver certificate was, so it will make for interesting reading. I also have to figure out what exactly is the mule on the 25cent piece. i felt the Columbus expo set was interesting. I didn’t realize they were minted over a 2 year period. Is it that one is silver and the other is not?
Bought these two coins for 80p which was a steal because the 1921 Swiss ½ Franc is worth over £1.20 melt and the 1974 J German 2 Mark is worth just under 90p exchange if I took it to be exchanged for Euro.
Hi to whoever is reading this. Did you know that TYPEWRITER (on a QWERTY keyboard) is the longest word you can type using only the letters on one row of the keyboard.
A couple pieces I picked up at my coin club auction. I didn’t even know what a silver certificate was, so it will make for interesting reading. I also have to figure out what exactly is the mule on the 25cent piece. i felt the Columbus expo set was interesting. I didn’t realize they were minted over a 2 year period. Is it that one is silver and the other is not?
They are both silver. The '92 is a bit scarce.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
A couple pieces I picked up at my coin club auction. I didn’t even know what a silver certificate was, so it will make for interesting reading. I also have to figure out what exactly is the mule on the 25cent piece. i felt the Columbus expo set was interesting. I didn’t realize they were minted over a 2 year period. Is it that one is silver and the other is not?
25 cents mule coin - it should be with 2008 date…some great additions 👌👌👌
Recent acquisitions of two of the more “difficult” years for Gothic florins (especially the 1862):
I'm still looking for the 1863.
Lovely coins - good work! I don't have any 1860s gothics for some reason.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Nice group IM94 - I would say your 1927 is much better than VF, its more EF to AU and a great coin. All the others are nice too. Aussie Florins are amongst my favourite coins.
Yesterday the Auckland Numismatic Society had its first coin fair and it was a hit, about 200 or 300 people came and there was 8 dealers which all did pretty well. I know I found it hard to get to everyone! There was a coin part to an International Stamp show in May, but coins were sidelined heavily next to the stamp part. However here it was all coins! I as usual went crazy.
Being sick for a week and a half then overseas, I had put coins on the backburner for a while. These are a few things I picked up. Again nearly all are England/UK.
One dealer had a bargain tray, coins at $6 each and I went nuts buying old English farthings. None here are crazy great, but they fill gaps and are historic. We have 1672 (1st year), 1674, 1737, 1799 and 1806/07.
Here we have 1822, 1825 (VF), 1840, 1845, 1847, 1850, 1853 most of these are Fine and some even VF, light verdigris on some. I have nearly every date after 1859, so this lot helps!
Group of cheap groats to complete collection - Most VG to Fine, I will take them out of the 2 x 2's and put them in flips. The 6d is 1697 and VF despite very bad photo.
Pretty worn but interesting and scarce shilling from 1735 - it only cost $28!
Much nicer 1825 Shilling, 1st year Merlen design, apologies for bad photo, but this is gVF!
2 cheap William IV coins, a scarce 1831 6d (Only the 6d and penny were issued in quantity that year), and a 1837 shilling.
More to come.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Nice group IM94 - I would say your 1927 is much better than VF, its more EF to AU and a great coin. All the others are nice too. Aussie Florins are amongst my favourite coins.
Yesterday the Auckland Numismatic Society had its first coin fair and it was a hit, about 200 or 300 people came and there was 8 dealers which all did pretty well. I know I found it hard to get to everyone! There was a coin part to an International Stamp show in May, but coins were sidelined heavily next to the stamp part. However here it was all coins! I as usual went crazy.
Being sick for a week and a half then overseas, I had put coins on the backburner for a while. These are a few things I picked up. Again nearly all are England/UK.
One dealer had a bargain tray, coins at $6 each and I went nuts buying old English farthings. None here are crazy great, but they fill gaps and are historic. We have 1672 (1st year), 1674, 1737, 1799 and 1806/07.
Here we have 1822, 1825 (VF), 1840, 1845, 1847, 1850, 1853 most of these are Fine and some even VF, light verdigris on some. I have nearly every date after 1859, so this lot helps!
Group of cheap groats to complete collection - Most VG to Fine, I will take them out of the 2 x 2's and put them in flips. The 6d is 1697 and VF despite very bad photo.
Pretty worn but interesting and scarce shilling from 1735 - it only cost $28!
Much nicer 1825 Shilling, 1st year Merlen design, apologies for bad photo, but this is gVF!
2 cheap William IV coins, a scarce 1831 6d (Only the 6d and penny were issued in quantity that year), and a 1837 shilling.
More to come.
Thank you very much Moneytane. Florins are my favourite denomination, although I have recently started buying more of the other silver denominations. Those are some great coins you purchased! That seems like a very good coin fair, hopefully the first of many. It looks like you scored well, I love that 1735 shilling, it still has some great detail left on it.
Better stuff now - an Uncirculated 1937 GB Florin with some toning (I am cornering the market on UNC KGVI silver!)
Again poor photography - but look at the shine - it could be November 1937 not 2023 here!
1821 Halfcrown - this is only Fine and badly cleaned on the Reverse, but if you saw the coin its replacing, its a revelation quality wise.
1845 Crown - another cleaned fine coin, but no edge bumps make it an attractive example. Basically the crown collection is really growing well this year.
Some more Fijian notes
Fiji 7 dollars 2022 to celebrate the Male and Female 7's winning and get third at Tokyo Olympix. This was the 2nd $7 note following on from one issued in 2017.
Fiji $50 for the 50th anniversary of Independence in 2020. There was also a 50 cent coin issued and ironically 2 million of each were issued. I doubt they sold 2 million of these (Cost for one thing), but I believe they circulate there. Its only Fiji's 2nd polymer note, the first being a $5 note issued in 2012.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Do you already have the 2024 circulation coins from your national mint?
Well, I already have one:
I'll be lucky if I find 2023 coins in my change! I usually just buy the Canadian commems on eBay from sellers who buy rolls from the bank or the RCM. As for the new Charles III circulating coins, they'll be out only in early December — so, should we expect a very low 2023 mintage? Note also that if you buy the new C'''R sets in circulation finish (BU), on the RCM website they point out they will be shipped starting in February 2024.
As for the rest, great additions in the field of British colonial coins! Does anyone know why some colonies or dominions or territories got Latin legends on the obverse and others, English legends? In BNA, the PEI 1871 cent is well known for being the only decimal coin with English legends.
As for the rest, great additions in the field of British colonial coins! Does anyone know why some colonies or dominions or territories got Latin legends on the obverse and others, English legends? In BNA, the PEI 1871 cent is well known for being the only decimal coin with English legends.
Not 100% sure, but my theory is 2 guesses
1. Era of the coins being issued. New Zealand never had Latin, but their coins only date from 1933 onwards same with Fiji (1934), Mauritius redesigns and Seychelles (Also 1930s). Many countries that had coins earlier on still kept Latin right through. For white British citizens colonial or not, Latin was commonly taught in secondary schools until the 1960s (1967 in New Zealand) and many of the highbrow and educated could understand it. The Catholic church abandoned Latin Liturgy in 1963 and schools stopped teaching it around that time, except religious and some elite schools.
2. Audience of coins, generally colonies with a high or significant native and/or non European population did not have Latin inscriptions at least on high value coins, as they generally spoke native languages, basic English and pidgin languages. It was expected in the pre 1960s racist era of colonisation, that over educating coloureds and/or natives was dangerous - placing latin on the coins they use, may make them think above their station (Using Colonial Bull/White Mans burden) style language there. Most Latin inscriptions on the BCC were in Canada, UK, South Africa and Australia, places with a significantly high number of white people. Why NZ missed out is a mystery as in 1933 it was 95% white and 4% Maori with only 1% or so of Chinese/Indian and other there. Even now our country is still 60% white, 20% Polynesian (Maori and Pasifika) and 20% Asians (Chinese and Indians). Although most “White” people have some Maori ancestry and sit at various levels of acknowledgement over it.
Finally - it just looked obselete and unless you spoke latin, made no sense.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Unless I find something of note in my pocket change again, this will be my last coin acquisition of November. I'm quite happy with it, though.
A British 1940 rupee and half-rupee, both in pretty decent condition. I love British India coins and these will go nicely with my 1913 rupee. I love the design on the reverse with the flowers representing England, Scotland, Ireland, and India. Too bad it's harder to find coins from British India in my area, and I don't always trust buying online.
Nice additions, liumin. Following Moneytane's observations, one can point out that the obverse legends are in English, not in Latin, which makes perfect sense in a multicultural and multilingual colony where English became the lingua franca (to use a Latin term!). There is only a timid concession to Urdu on the reverse.
As for Monytane's theories, #1 is very close to what I came to assume (though without any proof) for BNA. Canadian numismatists seem to assume that the English obverse legend of the 1871 PEI cent was kind of a mistake, but it may well be that by that date, colonies that got their first coinage were getting English legends. PEI is the last colony that received a colonial coinage in BNA, six years after Newfoundland got its own.
In Asia this theory doesn't work since coins struck for India already had English obverse legends under William IV (1830-1837) (example). But Ceylon under George III had obverse legends in Latin (example)…
Nice additions, liumin. Following Moneytane's observations, one can point out that the obverse legends are in English, not in Latin, which makes perfect sense in a multicultural and multilingual colony where English became the lingua franca (to use a Latin term!). There is only a timid concession to Urdu on the reverse.
As for Monytane's theories, #1 is very close to what I came to assume (though without any proof) for BNA. Canadian numismatists seem to assume that the English obverse legend of the 1871 PEI cent was kind of a mistake, but it may well be that by that date, colonies that got their first coinage were getting English legends. PEI is the last colony that received a colonial coinage in BNA, six years after Newfoundland got its own.
In Asia this theory doesn't work since coins struck for India already had English obverse legends under William IV (1830-1837) (example). But Ceylon under George III had obverse legends in Latin (example)…
You may have hit the nail on the head there. William IV and 1840 Queen Vic Rupees like mine
These coins are in English inscriptions like Edward VII, but I suspect George went Latin after the 1911 Durbar, which was the emperor visiting his empire and thus may have formalised things. Also all pre 1862 Indian Raj coins are East India company, which was a private company with the British Empire taking full control of India and its Princely states in 1858 after the first Indian push for Independence in 1857/58. But no Raj coins were issued between 1845 and 1862, except local Princely and Feudatory coins along with some Mughal ones.
The 1862 date I think was frozen for a long time and only changed to more regular issue when Disraeli got Victoria as Empress of India in 1876. So many 1862 dated coins were minted up to 1877. It amazes me too how many rupees were minted, some 800 million dated 1862 alone and at least 450 million 1840 coins and 200+ million 1835s. These are huge mintages for the era! Says something about the wealth of India (That the British stole). Probably also as no 2 or 5 Rupee large silver coins were issued and the next coin up was the gold 5 and 10 rupees which were infrequently issued along the Mohurs (15 Rupees).
PS - Sorry so much British empire - its my main interest, but my next post will be more Empire - but also some nice early Danish commemorative silver coins. Denmark at least is not in the British empire!
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
I would not put much stock into the thought process of what was the rationale of the legend in English/ Latin. All British India coins were in English including George V.
moreover, the bare head portraits were supposedly reserved for the colonies, but you have Edward VII in all his baldness on several Indian coins before they hurriedly and belatedly decided to introduce the 1 Anna with a crowned portrait.
even when it comes to the way successive british monarchs face away from each other, that’s something from after Charles II I think (?) and it was almost guaranteed to come to an end for something as vain as Edward VIII preferring his right hair parting.
however, there does exist east India company (tin) coins in Latin which I almost purchased at the last coin show, but alas I hesitated as I did not know much about those specific pieces. however I did take a picture. I will probably pick them up when I see the seller next
I would not put much stock into the thought process of what was the rationale of the legend in English/ Latin. All British India coins were in English including George V.
moreover, the bare head portraits were supposedly reserved for the colonies, but you have Edward VII in all his baldness on several Indian coins before they hurriedly and belatedly decided to introduce the 1 Anna with a crowned portrait.
even when it comes to the way successive british monarchs face away from each other, that’s something from after Charles II I think (?) and it was almost guaranteed to come to an end for something as vain as Edward VIII preferring his right hair parting.
however, there does exist east India company (tin) coins in Latin which I almost purchased at the last coin show, but alas I hesitated as I did not know much about those specific pieces. however I did take a picture. I will probably pick them up when I see the seller next
You are right, Charles II started the custom as he wanted to be facing away from Oliver Cromwell, the regicide. It did not stop there, his corpse along with several others of Parliamentarians who were involved in the death of Charles I were also dug up and repunished, heads posted on traitors gate spikes, corpses disinterred and thrown to dogs and Cromwells head covered in pitch even became a football for some.
The crowned heads rule was made firm in 1937 when it was decided bare heads were only allowed on British, Dominion and white country coins. Coins going to colonies and places like India with many coloured people had to have a crowned efigy to remind the coloured people who the big white daddy was. So yes coins were racist in this era, although Crowned Elizabeth became compulsory with the Machin effigy in the 1960s, so all of us regardless of race and colour had to put up with a crowned Elizabeth. So far Charles is crownless on some coins, maybe to appease the sweep of republicanism that had started (Barbados, Jamaica etc) as the Commonwealth disintegrates as our modern and dynamic world moves away from the racist colonial era towards one of global equality and human socialism over racism and capitalist greed along with for life dictators and false religions stymying human progress.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
I'm happy to see some "non-British-imperial" coins in this thread. We may need more, yet let me return to British imperial coinages…
Moneytane, you're right that the 1862 date was frozen. I think your 1862 rupee was struck in 1868 based on the number of 6 dots in the floral decoration right below the date.
ashlobo, as you may already know, the Latin legend is actually the motto of the Company: Auspicio Regis et Senatus Angliae, which translates as "By command of the King and Parliament of England". So the Latin here is not meant to inform the public about the value of the coin. Yet the ultimate authority is presented on the obverse as G (crown) R, so in abbreviated Latin.
As regards the crown rule, interestingly, the Australian and Canadian gold sovereigns (and half-sovereigns) carry the bare head of Edward VII and George V, while silver and bronze coins in the Australian pound and Canadian dollar bear the crowned portrait. This confirms that those gold sovereigns were meant for the Mother country. Still, many Canadian collectors include Ottawa-struck sovereigns in their collections…
Naturally, the Canadian $5 and $10 gold coins bear the crowned portrait.
I suppose they changed the crown rule after the Statute of Westminster (1931) whereby the dominions gained the right to self-determination. Canada acted quickly and from 1932 it became a nation with its own foreign policy. But Canadians remained subjects of the King —not as the British King but as the King of Canada— until the 1940s.
Interestingly, New Zealand was in no hurry to pass the legislation to acquire this new status granted by the 1931 Statute. Still, while George V is crowned on coins (1933-1936), George VI is bareheaded from 1937 and throughout his reign.
Meanwhile, Newfoundland went from colony to dominion in 1907, and eventually the economy was in such disarray that they handed over their administration back to the Mother country. George VI's portrait on coins is the crowned one probably for that reason.
Thanks Camerinvs - you know more about it than me. Statute of Westminster may be right as New Zealand got its coins in late 1933 and although the King was crowned, the inscriptions were in English and that also goes from coins from Fiji (1934), Mauritius redesigns (1934) and Seychelles (1939).
Thanks for dating my 1862 rupee as well, I had no idea about that. I am barely coming to grips with the mintmarks on them. I like rupees though, they are interesting and very cheap to collect. None of those coins cost over $35 and most are at least VF, the 1862 is AU and it cost $28! (NZ dollars are worth 57 US cents and 61 Eurocents).
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
ashlobo, as you may already know, the Latin legend is actually the motto of the Company: Auspicio Regis et Senatus Angliae, which translates as "By command of the King and Parliament of England". So the Latin here is not meant to inform the public about the value of the coin. Yet the ultimate authority is presented on the obverse as G (crown) R, so in abbreviated Latin.
yes, I conveniently ignored the fact that The Latin used here is in a slightly different context to what you were generally referring to. However the Latin on coins was never meant to convey value but an outdated hangover that the sovereign was on his throne by divine blessing.
By the time the crown portraits usages were codified in the 30s, the Brit’s were at their empire peak only to very quickly go into decline in the early 40s, and by 1956 after the suez canal episode, cemented their displacement as an eminent power in the modern world. Of course by the last 1960s, the empire was relegated to mostly modestly inhabited islands
However the Latin on coins was never meant to convey value but an outdated hangover that the sovereign was on his throne by divine blessing.
By the time the crown portraits usages were codified in the 30s, the Brit’s were at their empire peak only to very quickly go into decline in the early 40s, and by 1956 after the Suez canal episode, cemented their displacement as an eminent power in the modern world. Of course by the last 1960s, the empire was relegated to mostly modestly inhabited islands
Agreed, it wasn't the value but the King's/Queen's titles that are in Latin. That was a slip on my part.
You add another interesting point, that Latin goes hand in hand with divine blessing (DEI GRATIA and optionally FIDEI DEFENSOR). So far as I know, this was never translated nor added to the English legends.
Yes, the British Empire is a shadow of its former self. Perhaps its most significant legacy is English as the lingua franca of international and global relations.
Moneytane
Thanks for dating my 1862 rupee as well, I had no idea about that. I am barely coming to grips with the mintmarks on them. I like rupees though, they are interesting and very cheap to collect.
I like rupees very much as well, especially the two main types in the period 1862—1901. As for the intricacies of mintmarks and hidden dating devices, the best site to identify them is Chiefa Coins, especially the page dedicated to Victorian coins from India. I suspect much of the information about India comes from Parts 4.1 (Presidency Series) and 4.2 (Uniform Coinage) of Fred Pridmore's Coins of the British Commonwealth of Nations — India.
Meanwhile here are my new additions, better get British empire out of the way first (Funny that is over represented here, as on CCF its so overdone with American (USA) and then Canadian coins.
A friend sold me this 1937 GB proof set - its in great shape except it seems to missing a coin, in this case the Maundy 4 pence, which is a shame as the Maundy coins and the Crown make up the lions share of the value. For 37 though, the case is really nice with little aging and only traces of wear on the shillings and 6d. Everything else is mint fresh, the heads sides all better than tales. My friend had owned it for at least 40 years before me and bought it with the 4d missing - so the goal now is to find a 1937 4d proof Maundy coin!
Close up of the Crown, isn't she a beauty!
And the Maundy coins, aren't they beautiful. There is 3 threepences in the set, silver circulation, silver Maundy and the brass 12 sided one!
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
These are 3 Danish silver 2 kroner coins I bought as well and they are nice!
1888 - 25th anniversary of Christian IX's reign, this coin is practically uncirculated (Likely cleaned though)
1903 - 40th annivesary of his reign, this is a very nice design, again AU condition
1915 2 Kroner of Christian X - this was one of the last silver ones, before they descended into the aluminium brass muck metal coins of the 1920s. Another nice piece, its high EF condition.
I missed out on 1893 Royal wedding anniversary, 1912 changeover of King, 1924 Royal wedding anniversary and one other.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Whoa! Three posts in a row without British colonials… I don't know if we can survive this…
More seriously, nice acquisitions!
Oh, and now that I think about it, we have had very little paper money so far, even though I opened this thread with an item of this category.
EDIT — I suppose Turi's coin is British colonial, but no British monarch depicted nor even a single English word.
Yes. I think it is British colonial one, even though it doesn't seem like it.
I like so much asiatic coins. It is amazing.
Thanks @grinya 😀
i must admit I had never heard of Broach, but that is only because I know it as Bharuch which is a historic as well as industrial city in Gujarat state
I was curious myself what this would be classified as because in my mind, the “colonial” period really starts with the final defeat of the Sikh’s in around 1818. Before that was a greyish period of British alliances with local rulers but, not where the British were the unquestioned power.
I would even go so far as to say the colonial period technically starts when Rule of India was transferred to the British crown in 1858
With the coin dated 1802, it probably was issued in the name of the Mughal emperor as was standard at the time even though the Mughals were nominal figureheads by then. However if someone
knows what the legend actually states, I would be interested!
In 1772, the British again attacked Bharuch, defeating Nawab Mu'azzaz Khan, allegedly with the help of his treacherous minister, Diwan Lallubhai. The British handed over Bharuch to the Marathas who ruled between 1783 and 1802. From 1802, Bharuch was returned to the East India Company under the terms of the Treaty of Salbai.
and among the results, not surprisingly, is Numista member Parimal's page and many others.
And yes, at first I, too, thought that “Broach” was a mistake…
👇👇👇 ********* EDIT ********* 👇👇👇
With a little chance, it's in Part 2 of the Pridmore auction. You can download the PDF of this and of Parts 1 and 3.
Pridmore's Coins of the British Commonwealth of Nations, Part 1 (European Territories), 2 (Asia), 3 (West Indies), 4.1 (India Princely States) and 4.2 (India Uniform Coinages) is the standard reference work. I have the first three parts but not the last two, which are rare and expensive. The catalogue of his auction is a useful though of course incomplete substitute.
and among the results, not surprisingly, is Numista member Parimal's page and many others.
And yes, at first I, too, thought that “Broach” was a mistake…
👇👇👇 ********* EDIT ********* 👇👇👇
With a little chance, it's in Part 2 of the Pridmore auction. You can download the PDF of this and of Parts 1 and 3.
Pridmore's Coins of the British Commonwealth of Nations, Part 1 (European Territories), 2 (Asia), 3 (West Indies), 4.1 (India Princely States) and 4.2 (India Uniform Coinages) is the standard reference work. I have the first three parts but not the last two, which are rare and expensive. The catalogue of his auction is a useful though of course incomplete substitute.
Wow! Thank you very much Ashlobo and Camerinvs! Very good information! 😀
This Peruvian 1806 8 reales still retains all its brilliant original mint luster. By far my nicest 8 reales so far.
Lastly, I acquired this 1925 peace dollar from an antique mall in the middle of nowhere. It's my first toned peace dollar and first ANACS graded coin.
Amazing coins the Peru 8 Reales is the best one I’ve seen in a while.
Hi to whoever is reading this. Did you know that TYPEWRITER (on a QWERTY keyboard) is the longest word you can type using only the letters on one row of the keyboard.
Both (and the one I posted earlier in this thread) are, as usual, high grade. I suppose this issue didn't circulate much. No other coins were ever issued specifically for SPM. Now, like some Caribbean islands and Guyanne, they use the Euro.
This is great guys, but how about easing off the criticism of British empire coins. They make up like 90% of my collection and give me great satisfaction. I also live in the British commonwealth, so naturally they are the coins I am familiar with and gravitate too.
And yes my next post will feature British and colonial coins.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Oh, it's not really a criticism so far as I am concerned. British and British colonials, especially BNA and Canada, are also the bulk of my collection.
What's more, I think 18th—early 20th century British coins are overall the most beautiful coins ever made.
Not only that, they are also unsurpassed from the technical/technological point of view. In the late 18th, for example, there was no other large copper coin anywhere else in the world that was comparable to the 1797 penny and “tuppence”. The quality of the strike of the silver is also close to perfect.
Of course, in the late-19th and early 20th century, an era of intense production, the penny's large diameter and thinness caused a lot of heavy die transfer, but there is not much else that I can find fault with.
Sure, the Chinese knew how to smelt iron before anyone in the West, but the coins are not particularly attractive…
I got some coins last weekend, some NCLT silver proofs found mixed in a dusty case full of exonomia I have been pawing through recently. These are the same size as a US silver dollar. They are corny, but charming, so I took them home. New country in my collection. Already bought another one on ebay, will be in next month.
I had to read the bible verses cited. Jacob meets Rachel is a fine story, they fell in love at first sight, and were betrothed the same day, and Jacob wept, but it does not mention them levitating off the earth. 😇
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
The first one of those two reproduces this well-known painting (as I'm sure you already knew):
here on a Chinese book cover.
Here is a new countermark, unattested in Brunk's 2006 book (the reference work on countermarks):
It reads “. RITOHEY”. Obviously an initial fell outside the surface on the left. At first I thought that it was “RITCHEY” but the name Ritohey does exist. It is attested in the USA, but I'm not sure yet about Canada.
Normally I rather dislike this type of defaced coins, but in this case it is evidence that an English bank token got into the Canadian market. Guelph is about 30 minutes west of Toronto. This was probably engraved long after 1812 since the coin would not have been put back in circulation and get so worn after the engraving. Note that the date was carefully left untouched. J. T. Nichols probably had a connection with it (e.g. birth or marriage year) which triggered the idea of engraving it. But when and why was the coin holed at the bottom? Mmmmmh.
It may be possible to find who J. T. Nichols was. Obviously, he (or she?) belonged to the educated class, both for caring about calligraphy and for “wasting” a substantial amount of silver. How much flour or bread could you purchase with 3 shillings? Quite a lot.
There are different fantastic versions of the reasons of minting special coins for Siberia. But the most common and official version is that it was needed to utilize copper that was too expensive to be transported, but as Siberian that copper contained some gold and silver, the weight of the coin shall be lower comparing to other Russian coins.
He was the first, and most successful, of three "pretenders" who claimed during the Time of Troubles to be the youngest son of Ivan the Terrible, tsarevich Dmitry Ivanovich, who supposedly escaped a 1591 assassination attempt when he was eight years old. It is generally believed that the real Dmitry of Uglich died in Uglich in 1591. False Dmitry claimed that his mother, Maria Nagaya, anticipated the assassination attempt ordered by Boris Godunov and helped him escape to a monastery in the Tsardom of Russia, and the assassins killed somebody else instead. He said he fled to the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth after he came to the attention of Boris Godunov, who ordered him seized.
With the support of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, False Dmitry invaded the Russian Empire in 1605, but the war ended with the sudden death of Boris Godunov. Disaffected Russian boyars staged a coup against the new tsar, Feodor II. False Dmitry entered Moscow on 21 July 1605, and was crowned tsar. Maria Nagaya accepted him as her son and "confirmed" his story. False Dmitry's reign was marked by his openness to Catholicism and allowing foreigners into Russia. This made him unpopular with the boyars, who staged a successful coup and killed him eleven months after he took the throne. His wife of 10 days, Marina, would later "accept" False Dmitry II as her fallen husband.
He was Tsar of all Russia from 1606 to 1610, after the murder of False Dmitri I. His rule coincided with the Time of Troubles.
Shuisky recognized the previous pretender as the "real" Dmitry, despite having earlier determined that the boy had committed suicide. But later he turned against the false Dmitry and brought about his death (in May 1606) by stating that the real Dmitry had indeed been slain and that the reigning tsar Dmitriy (False Dmitriy I) was an impostor. After Dmitriy's death, Shuisky's adherents proclaimed him tsar, on 19 May 1606. He reigned until 19 July 1610, but was never generally recognized. Even in Moscow itself he had little or no authority, and he only avoided deposition by the dominant boyars because they had no one to replace him with
Also updated some pictures at Numista catalogue:)
My personal list of scammers from Numista: erniemix, yvain, CassTaylor
