Adding % over spot in addition to the existing coin prices [opgelost]

Hi,

due to the drastic increase in gold price this year, a lot of the coin prices of gold coins on Numista don't represent the current state at all. Just two examples (see the Bullion value on the pages with comparison to the prices below UNC quality) :

N#30082

N#8001

I don't see a good way to solve that particular problem, because that would mean data has to be removed when metal prices are rising (and when they fall, reading them?).

But what could be done, is adding the metric of % over spot. I don't know who provides the metal prices for Numista, maybe they have historical data as well.

My proposal would be to calculate the % over the gold, silver, platinum, etc. spot price on the day the auction took place, or the user entered the coin into their collection (here we have to trust they do it in a reasonable timeframe after purchase). This new data could be presented in the exact same way as the current prices. Maybe one could switch with a button between these two values?

I believe that data would be way more helpful than strict prices for more modern coins which don't have astronomical numismatic value.

Like proposed multiple times in the past, the highest value should always be displayed. 

If melt value > Numista value  → display: melt value and vice versa.

I would also put face value in there but you can often get foreign coins far under FV and some demonetised coins can technically be still exchanged, a few indefinitely.

So optional: Melt Value, Numista Value, Face Value → display largest value per grade 

Idolenz

Like proposed multiple times in the past, the highest value should always be displayed. 

If melt value > Numista value  → display: melt value and vice versa.

 

I would also put face value in there but you can often get foreign coins far under FV and some demonetised coins can technically be still exchanged, a few indefinitely.

So optional: Melt Value, Numista Value, Face Value → display largest value per grade 

But that would just give wrong information too. There are a ton of pages that would then show that just UNC examples are worth more than spot, when that's not the case.

Besides, that's a problem completely independent from my suggestion.

The same would be true for you percentage.

Idolenz

The same would be true for you percentage.

In what way? If a coin is roughly worth 5% over spot, then it would show that. Currently, we can't know (without calculating it ourselves).

Hello,

We actually started a similar development. For bullion coins, the estimates will not be calculated based on the absolute price anymore but based on the premium over spot. For example, if the coin sold multiple times at 5% over spot (as recorded in auction results and user collections) and the bullion price increased in the meantime, we will estimate the price to be 5% over the current bullion price. The estimate will still be shown in your currency, as today.

Hello,

This has been implemented. If a bullion coin (gold, silver, palladium or platinum) was bought or sold with a reasonable premium over the bullion spot price, we now take into account the variation of bullion price since the date of the purchase/sale.

Here is an example which shows much more realistic values. N#6718

The coin has an actual gold weight of 5.8 grams, which is currently worth 403 € at spot price.

Hello,

Just one question: the prices on Numista may be entered (or came from auctions) in different currencies. Do you use fx rates on the date of auction for the calculation? 

We currently use the exchange rate of the day when the value is registered on Numista. We could improve that in the future and use the exchange rate of the auction date. Another possible future evolution is to better take into account inflation.

Clearly needs refinement and adjustments  especially in the lower grades in my opinion. A flat % over spot is not the answer. Perhaps a graduated % depending on grade? Condition is everything in the coin collecting world and affects value significantly.

Thanks Xavier

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic145983.html#p1159155

We don't use a flat percentage over spot. If a coin was purchased at 15% over spot 5 years ago, we consider it equivalent as a coin bought 15% over the current spot price (only with a lesser weight in the calculation; newer data have a higher weight). If the coin was in so poor condition that it was purchased 7% below the spot price for example, the applied percentage is 7% below current spot price.

Xavier

Hello,

We actually started a similar development. For bullion coins, the estimates will not be calculated based on the absolute price anymore but based on the premium over spot.

I think it would be very helpful if ‘date acquired’ existed as a data point for member owned coins.

For example: N#4024

I use the ‘Buying value (GBP)’ box to define what I paid for my coins.

In this example £366.76, the ‘Bullion value’ is currently GBP 433.92.

However from my private comments, I know I purchased the coin 11th May 2022 when average spot was £47.91 per gram, so I paid 4.55% over spot.  Not only could ‘value’ over time be tracked better if Numista collected the date acquired, but also insights into the (hopefully) growing value of member items / collections.

This would also be helpful for non-bullion items, if I paid £1 for an item currently selling around £5, did I get a bargain, no I purchased it 10 years ago; is my value (and other member values) effecting the overall value displayed for the item… because every purchase happened at a fixed point in time.

Just a note, I dont know if you changed something Xavier  but I am seeing a huge difference in values since my post earlier this morning.

We noticed a bug in the new price calculation (see https://fr.numista.com/forum/topic145922.html), which led to too many coins being impacted by the bullion price adjustment. It has been fixed today.

You are a good man sir.

inc7007

 

 

This would also be helpful for non-bullion items, if I paid £1 for an item currently selling around £5, did I get a bargain, no I purchased it 10 years ago; is my value (and other member values) effecting the overall value displayed for the item… because every purchase happened at a fixed point in time.

That's a good point. 

When I started collecting I've got many coins from relatives and grandparents, hence my buying price is zero. 

Same applies to many that I bought when I was younger, before and during Brazilian hyperinflation periods, making my buying value irrelevant.

When I discovered numista, I had to choose input zero as the buying value, or numista's/catalog value.