Republic of China Y-302.2 10 cash coin - real or fake (full text of post)

Discussie over China, republiek • 10 Cash (4th issue; Founding of the Republic; copper)

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Sorry for the blank post on this same topic I sent out earlier - I hit the post button by accident and it sent the post before I got the chance to type anything! 

 

I recently purchased a Republic of China 10 cash coin which appears to be an example of Y# 302.2 (N#16221).

 

The reverse of the coin matches the description for Y# 302.2 pieces (vine passes under the leaf at the 12:00 position; no “M” shaped leaves directly under the wheat ears; and no bow at the bottom of the wreath.

 

I am concerned a bit about the obverse. It looks different (in subtle ways) from the coin at the top of the 16221 Numista page (which is a Y# 302.1 coin). The Chinese characters comprising the legends are “thicker” and less detailed than what is shown on the 16221 top of page coin, the Chinese characters that look box-like are more rounded than square, and the middle character of the five comprising the bottom legend looks different from the one in the same location on the coin at the top of the 16621 page.

 

There is discussion of similar-looking Y-302.2 coins in the forum posts on the Numista 16221 page. Although no one was absolutely certain, the gist of the discussions about these coins was that they were most likely fake (mainly because of the differences I noted and mentioned on the obverse). However…

 

The Numista 16221 page shows nice, clear pictures of three additional coins of this type under the “Past Sales” section. Although none of the coins are attributed with their corresponding Y#s, the first (Katz Auction 67/Lot 2654) and third (Katz Auction 69/Lot 2624) appear to be Y# 302.1 specimens. The second coin (Katz Auction 84/Lot 1992) appears to be a Y-302.2 specimen (based upon its reverse) but interestingly, it has the same (subtly different) obverse as my coin (and the coins that were suggested as possibly being fakes in the forum discussions). I haven't included a picture of my coin, because it looks exactly like this coin (but with more wear/lower grade) and the photo on the Numista page is much better than I could ever generate.

 

Some other interesting observations:

 

The Republic of China Y# 301 10 cash coins (N#5669) appear to have the exact same obverse (with the “heavy/bolder” Chinese characters in the legends, the rounder versions of the square Chinese characters, and the different looking middle character in the bottom legend. While the reverse of the Y# 301 coins is different from the Y# 302 coins, the flowers in the center look more like the Y# 302.2 version than the Y# 302.1 version. 

 

Interestingly, the NGC and Numismaster websites, along with my copy of the 47th Edition of the SCWC all show a picture of a coin that looks just like mine (obverse and reverse) as the plate coin for Y# 302.2. Even more interesting, in all three of these sources, the plate coin for Y# 302.1 has an obverse that looks just like my coin, but with the proper reverse for a Y#302.1 coin.

 

The more I looked at the obverse of my coin, the more I began to think that the “different” looking Chinese character in the middle of the legend on the bottom of the obverse of my coin might actually be the same Chinese character on the Y# 302.2 coins pictures on the Numista website, but looks different because of the “heavier, bolder, thicker and more rounded style” of characters apparently used on the obverse of Y# 302.2 coins (and the obverse of the Y# 301 coins). The respective Numista web pages for both coins translate the bottom obverse legends of both coins as “Founding Commemorative Coin”, which suggests that the different looking middle Chinese character in the Y# 301 coin legend is in fact the same Chinese character in the middle of the Y#302.1 coin obverse bottom legend (just written in a different style).

 

I apologize for this very long post, but I think it is important to clarify the status of Y# 302 coins that have the “different style obverse” like my specimen, the Katz Auction 84/Lot 1992 specimen on the Numista page for Y# 302 coins, and the plate coins for Y# 302 on the Numismaster and NGC websites and in the paper version of the SCWC. Are they real or are they fake? The weight of my specimen was 6642 mg on the high precision digital balance I have access to at work (matches the Numista page value of 6.6 grams quite closely). 

 

Based upon my discussion above, my opinion is that the Y# 302 coins that look like the one I have (and the Katz Auction 84/Lot 1992 coin, and the ones discussed in some of the forum posts on the Numista website for Y# 302 coins) are real, and that they are what a real Y# 302.2 coin should look like. Further, I believe they were made using left-over obverse dies from the 1912 issue (the Y# 301 coins), which may explain why they seem to be less common and have somewhat higher valuations than the Y# 302.1 coins (which look like the coin at the beginning of the Numista 16221 web page). There are still some unresolved questions (for example, is the Y#302.2/Y#301 obverse ever paired with the Y#302.1 reverse (as suggested by the Numismaster/NGC/SCWC plate coin for Y#302.1) and is the Y# 302.2 reverse ever paired with the Y#302.1 obverse? This might be an interesting polling question for Numista members who own a specimen of a Y# 302 10 cash coin. It would also be very helpful to include clear pictures of the obverse and reverse of Y# 302.2 coins (like the one I have) on the Numista 16221 webpage (possibly using the images of the Katz Auction 84/Lot 1992 coin already on the webpage, but not assigned to a Y# 302 subcategory) to prevent people who have Y# 302 coins with that obverse from thinking their coin is fake for that reason.

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