Patagon 1629 And 1626 [opgelost]

Hello 🤖

Without pictures, it will be very difficult for anyone to help you. Could you please post clear pictures of each side of your item?

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Hi, 

One Patagon is 1626 Brussels mint , but can not find it in world coin catalog , my be someone have some ideas how rear it is?

Second is 1629 Burgundy , also cant find it in catalog!

The first one (1629) is here:  N#111026  This place is called Franche-Comte in English.

The second one (1626) is Brabant, Brussels mint. 

(edit: I see we were writing at same time).  Recent sale of the Brabant coin here: https://www.numisbids.com/sale/7028/lot/?lot=911

Hi Thanks , cant find any info abaut them , maybe you can help , how rear are they?

Got it , thanks , may be some info for other one?Thers no data for 1629 

The Burgundy patagons tend to be more rare.  Here is a sale of a 1629, but it is in better condition than yours, so be careful on judging the value of yours: https://www.numisbids.com/sale/4056/lot/?lot=1736.

There seem to be a lot of these in the numismatic auctions in Poland, Lithuania, Latvia these days.

How do you think , the price for this patagons could be real from catalog?

Thanks a lot for info , can I ask where ar you from?

Probably you have already done these identifications:

Photos 1 and 2.  Brabant, Undated Albert & Isabella, Maastricht mint.

Photo 3.  1617.  I don;t think I see the matching other side?

Photo 4.  Looks like Tournai.  I don't think I see the matching other side?

Photos 5 and 6.  Brabant, 1617 Bois-le-Duc mint.

I will look for some auction results … 

And, I am in the U.S., but I happen to collect Polish coins and Low Countries coins.   

Thanks , Im from Latvia , I got a big colection of coins , more than 1000 , I m new guy in numismatics , I have about 200 of Patagons and  50 thalers and ducats , lot of livoni coins , trojaks and other , I m just making a catalog and try to make some price indications , my be I can send jou fotos and excel files when it will be ready , and give me your apinion of colection value?

Patagon N.D. Albert Isabella Brabant  Maastricht  KM35.2

Patagon 1617 Albert Isabella Brabant  Hertogenbosch  KM35.4

Patagon 1617 Albert Isabella Brabant  Hertogenbosch  KM35.4

These are rare mints/dates for full patagons (the fractions like ¼ are less rare).  I could not find any auction results.  One of the 's-Hertogenbosch dates almost looks like it could be 1619, but this is not a known date.  If you are planning to sell these, in my opinion auction houses like Jean Elsen or Kuenker are places that handle rare Low Countries coins.

I am not an expert on detecting counterfeits, and I do not know if there are modern counterfeits of the rare dates in the market.  The Maastricht coin almost looks too good in terms of planchet quality (roundness) and evenness of strike, at least compared to the ugly patagons from the 1630s-1650s.  Maybe the workers in Maastricht were more careful than in Brussels and Antwerp. 

The way I do my research is:

1. I use the site acsearch.info to find a sale.  For example for your 1629, I searched on “1629 Patagon Dole” and came up with this: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7307312.

2. Open a new browser window and enter “Jean Elsen Auction 145 Numisbids.” (or whichever Auction appeared in the acsearch result).  You will get a window where you can enter the lot number (1736) in a box at the left that says “Go to lot:” and the sale result will appear.

That should work for many/most of your coins.  Some of the auction houses may be on OneBid instead of Numisbids.

(Note:  When searching for 's-Hertogenbosch the search also needs to be done on the French name of the mint, Bois-le-duc. )

There is also the possibility to do it all on acsearch, but you need to buy a subscription (the way I have described is free).  

Thanks, for your help , will continue my work and research👍

For me it also looks like 1619 , could that date be realistic?May be you know someone that can help? 
Because 1626 Brussels mint also wasn’t in Krause catalog!

The Numista date list is probably the best existing reference for the Brabant patagons.  N#24889

Some new dates have been discovered in the last 10 years, and I think most of them have been captured in our listing.

1619 is possible for 's-Hertogenbosch.  The mint was open until 1624.  

The leading expert on these coins is the auction house Jean Elsen:  https://elsen.be/about-us/

They are usually very helpful with questions, so you could send an email (English is OK) with your photos of the three rare coins. info@elsen.be  

Good luck, and please let us know what you learn.

Thanks again, will do my best and get bac with some info👍

Hi, I was talking to Elsen experts and they told that  coins are extremely rear and they have never had ones in auction, so they can tell the actual value. 
But thanks for you advise to contact them, very helpfu .

That's very good news!

Congratulations on possessing such interesting (and rare) coins.

I see the coins are for sale. 

Best wishes for good prices!

Thanks, lets hope so 🤞

I see that the rare Maastricht coin has a bid.  Also I see in the listing that it is only the THIRD KNOWN EXAMPLE of this coin!!

😮

Hi, hope the bids will get better, thanks for mentioning it!😉

Congratulations!  It looks like all the rare ones went well above their estimates.

Hi ,

Thanks , for your help ..with this auction 

yes some coins got very good price , wasnt expecting so good …