I can't decide... melt or not

I know the image of coin is not so clear. But I know what is it.. Ottoman Empire 2 Hayriye Altin AH1223/21.. all are clear on coin (gold) I wonder about its shape.... it's damaged... twisted... what you think about it.. also have a hole on top...

If it is gold I would melt it, especially if you do not find it attractive or if the numismatic value is not higher than melt value

Could you try making better pictures of both sides without a flash in natural light and provide information on weight and diameter?
For the time being I side with a big IF which started the previous post.
...

Upon inspecting your picture again I think there is no need for better pictures, since this is not a gold coin, this is brass. Gold does not corrode. In the Ottoman Empire it was very common to make imitations of gold coins for use as decoration on clothing: not every girl's family could afford gold coins, but every girl wanted to be beautifully dressed, especially on a wedding ceremony.    

Thanks for replies. I am from Turkey and know a bit about imitation coins and their usage at Ottoman Empire..
I am sure it's not corroded. It's the exact coin I told before. All about the photo.. I need to buy a good machine for good results.
I just wonder what people think about that coin because of the shape of it.
Normally a lot of collectors may throw it away if not gold.
Being gold is the problem for me. My brain says melt it but my heart says not.
  

Thanks for replies. I am from Turkey and know a bit about imitation coins and their usage at Ottoman Empire..
All about the photo.. I need to buy a good machine for good results.
I just wonder what people think about that coin because of the shape of it.
Normally a lot of collectors may throw it away if not gold.
Being gold is the problem for me. My brain says melt it but my heart says not.

If it's fake and if you're able to melt coins yourself, I'd say melt it as soon as possible, along with any other fake coins.

Citeer: SmartOneKgIf it's fake and if you're able to melt coins yourself, I'd say melt it as soon as possible, along with any other fake coins.

No it's not fake or imitation...
OK - I think I can't explain my self good because of my English.

See any difference of the Mahmud II gold 2 Hayriye Altin mint in Qustantiniya (Istanbul today) in AH1223//21 (1828 AD) with the piece in the first post, in particular the corrosion around the hole on one and its absence on the gold coin?

Yes for a 160 years old coin it's too shiny..
 I wonder how people kept them like that without mylar holders or capsules..
and it has a hole too that means it used too..
The diference with that two coin is : one is cleaned other not. and your post has a better grade.
I know the diameter I know the weight. I know what I am talking about.
 but thanks for warning me about fakes.
At last the topic goes to wrong side if it is fake or not.
I asked another question.. I know there is lots of skilled numismatists on this forum
so I wanted to know their opinion about its grade..

In answer to your question don't melt unless you have a better example.

The coin is definitely a fake, I had one like it and it was also bended like that.

If you don't trust our opinion, take your coin to the nearest jeweler and ask him to check its fineness or better even sell him your "gold" coin.
I would also like to know coin's weight and see the other side.

Citeer: bam777In answer to your question don't melt unless you have a better example.

As a Numista Team member and a moderator I don't think that you could be unaware of the fact that gold coins don't corrode. The black corrosion around the hole on the TS picture, as well as reddish areas in the field are characteristic signs of corroded and some time ago chemically cleaned brass or aluminum-bronze (which is almost the same). I cannot understand why do you suggest the TS to keep an obvious fake.

I marked on the photo the porous area, characteristic for cast fakes, and 5 corrosion areas impossible on a gold coin and characteristic for a brass one kept in humid environment or cleaned chemically some time ago.

What must also be taken into consideration here is the fact that it is not pure gold .999 so therefore is possible to corrode.

I didn't want to make a comment on the gold front. And as a team member, I wasn't broaching the subject but answering the question. In answer to the question, I suggested yes melt it providing that there is a better example in the collection. If he took a piece of Bronze or other base metal to be melted he isn't going to get much money for it so he's welcome to take that...gold would be better...

Since in 3 days we haven't heard from volkan regarding the weight or the picture of the other side of his 'gold coin', he has probably melted it after all and with the proceeds went on a week-long "all-inclusive" holiday to a 5* hotel in Maldives or some other warm and luxurious place.
In case he has not yet, here are a few other 'gold Ottoman coins' to add to his melting pot in order to make this holiday two or three weeks long.



In this folder at Zeno there are about 50 other jewelry imitations of Ottoman coins
http://www.zeno.ru/showgallery.php?cat=1445

Real Ottoman coins from Zeno database could be enjoyed in other folders of this very interesting and useful site on Eastern numismatics with many knowledgeable members
http://www.zeno.ru/showgallery.php?cat=580

Citeer: Andrey

Citeer: bam777In answer to your question don't melt unless you have a better example.

As a Numista Team member and a moderator I don't think that you could be unaware of the fact that gold coins don't corrode. The black corrosion around the hole on the TS picture, as well as reddish areas in the field are characteristic signs of corroded and some time ago chemically cleaned brass or aluminum-bronze (which is almost the same). I cannot understand why do you suggest the TS to keep an obvious fake.

I marked on the photo the porous area, characteristic for cast fakes, and 5 corrosion areas impossible on a gold coin and characteristic for a brass one kept in humid environment or cleaned chemically some time ago.

I don't understand the connection between having an in depth knowledge of Ottoman gold coins and the requirements of being a forum moderator.

Knowing that gold coins don't corrode is not really an in depth knowledge. I don't doubt that a moderator of a numismatic forum possesses such knowledge and therefore I was surprised to read his advice to a not so experienced member about keeping this item.

Citeer: AndreyKnowing that gold coins don't corrode is not really an in depth knowledge. I don't doubt that a moderator of a numismatic forum possesses such knowledge and therefore I was surprised to read his advice to a not so experienced member about keeping this item.

I'd not keep that coin. It wouldn't even get close to my collection. But, it isn't mine and I'd advise him as if it was gold as he "presumed" it was. If it is not, it isn't worth debating the point in terms of it not being gold. Not gold: don't keep. Gold: melt. OR Gold not melt, not got in collection, keep bendy coin as a result.
That was my point, regardless of whether the coin in question is real or not.
You've seen my identification skills at work, sometimes I am wrong. But, I'm not looking to be proved wrong or right, but learning. I never said his coin was genuine and don't need to be informed either way. I was answering the question thus not debating the point of gold and not gold situation.

Besides I thought the role of the moderator was to make sure we all behave nicely and not use naughty words.  You don't need specialist knowledge for that. (not that I'm saying Bam is limited in his knowledge of coins)  It's like the CEO of a sport's team.  He doesn't need to know much about the sport that the team play, they just need to know how to make money.

Citeer: neilithicBesides I thought the role of the moderator was to make sure we all behave nicely and not use naughty words.  You don't need specialist knowledge for that. (not that I'm saying Bam is limited in his knowledge of coins)  It's like the CEO of a sport's team.  He doesn't need to know much about the sport that the team play, they just need to know how to make money.

F****** right Skippy.

(Edited by BAM777)

There is no need to explain the role of a moderator or defend bam777's knowledge: I have already said that I don't doubt it. I also refrain from using F--- word or the like in the forum, and not only.

I believe that a numismatic forum has to spread numismatic knowledge. I hope we all are on the same line here. If I asked a question about a coin with a wrong assumption about it, I hope to be corrected and get an explanation from other members. My comments had only this purpose: I wanted to explain to volkan and others who wanted to know, that this item is not a gold coin. I explained why and provided examples. Knowing if this item is a real gold coin is essential for volkan's decision to keep, or melt, or through away. Now volkan knows. He might return the item to the seller, if there is still a chance to do this. He can keep it as a curiosity or as a sample in the section of his collection devoted to fakes and imitations. Collectively we explained to him that keeping this in a erroneous assumption that this is a gold coin would not be a good idea. Imagine if he saves this as a 100% secure investment in gold for the moment of dire need, or gives this as an expensive present to a loved one, and it comes out too late that the "expensive coin" is not even $1 worth ...

That was my way of thinking when I expressed surprise about an advice from a knowledgeable member/moderator not to melt the item, if volkan didn't have a better example. If the moderator explained simultaneously that the coin was not gold, I wouldn't have posed a question. But now I understand, that the moderator wanted to answer only the direct question. Well, I accept that this is one possible approach. My approach is different: I usually try to help when I see the problem, even if not directly asked about this problem. I appreciate when people do the same. Like I am grateful to the doctor who informed my wife of her serious illness of which she didn't know, in spite of the fact that she came to him with a totally unrelated question, and thus saved her life by sharing his knowledge and not limiting himself to answering direct questions. Sorry for the long post and a personal detail, just didn't want to be misunderstood.

IMHO, the issue with the item in the first post is clear and it would be better to consider this discussion closed.

Citeer: AndreySince in 3 days we haven't heard from volkan regarding the weight or the picture of the other side of his 'gold coin', he has probably melted it after all and with the proceeds went on a week-long "all-inclusive" holiday to a 5* hotel in Maldives or some other warm and luxurious place.


first of all i think there must be a an age limit for that kind of forum's.
and.. i am not sleeping with my laptop or coins.. so if 3 days i didn't answer that doesn't mean i don't have any answer. numismatic is my hobbie since i was a chield.(not my job).
i didn't buy that coin from anywhere... i will never buy that kind of damaged coins...
Andrey asked for the weight of that coin and talking about why i didn't answer... i want to say he cn look catalog's for its weight... or i can say it and he will begin to talking about ''Volkan looked catalog's and write it''
here all people must know that i wasn't try to sell or try to swap that coin... all i wanted to do was trying to join this group with some words and trying to get some advice.
i am making swaps with other person's around the world about 5 years with mail. i learn there is Numista for 3 months.
i live in Turkey, we have some idiotic rules in this country... people can't sell older coins to abroad neither in Turkey without people who hve permission from government. only last 6 Sultan is free to trade.
so that does not mean i don'T have any other coins older than last 6 Sultan if i didn't add them to my collection or swap list. i have gold coins,silver coins,cupper coins and etc.
so i want to say that:
please give up talking about my numismtic skills and close that topic.
if i say it's gold at least for me it's gold. its no one's business to talk about it. look the topic and just answer what i asked all i wanted to know... and thanks to eminem,bam777 for just answering my question.

I respect both points here made. Andrey, I want to express my understanding of your viewpoint. Volkan, I hear yours and I apologise that your thread became a bit of a debate.

I did answer the question: narrowly...which isn't usually my style. I felt it was necessary to answer it this way.

No hard feelings, Andrey. I appreciate your knowledge.

Why melt a coin you seem unsure about when one can turn any such coin into a trench ring?  See when I get coins that are badly damaged or questionable I turn them in to trench rings. So no do not melt but turn it in to a trench ring.