Is the price of precious metals affecting your collecting?

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Moneytane

Trump's bluffing and bungling may be weakening the American dollar.

The US Dollar has lost in value over the last few days.

 

The recent rise in PM is said to be the situation in Japan, where the prime minister has dissolved the parliament for a snap election. The Japanese interest rates are going up and has reached a 30-year high, which gives fear that Japanese investors will sell bonds abroad and shift for Japanese bonds due to the increased yield and the US uncertainty.

neilithicman

It's hard to know when to cash in scrap silver.  I've got a couple of ounces of junk silver.  I'd like to cash them in to buy some more coins I want for my collection, but the price just keeps going up.

For the moment it's all about sitting still in the boat. Cash in when spot hits a plateau of a longer period, which I guess will not be until after the US midterms.

Silver had a harsh ride today, opening around $108 and climbing up to $116 and its now plummeted to $103 an ounce, heedy times. Its now back at $106, obviously someone is trying to stop silver from breaking out more.

 

Meanwhile gold settles at $5,000 an ounce or so.

I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society

Moneytane

Silver had a harsh ride today, opening around $108 and climbing up to $116 and its now plummeted to $103 an ounce, heedy times. Its now back at $106, obviously someone is trying to stop silver from breaking out more.

 

Meanwhile gold settles at $5,000 an ounce or so.

Uncertainty with all the crap happening at the moment. 

 

Good for people who had already stock-piled precious metals, not so good for those of us looking to grow our collection.  I've been concentrating on stuff that has a higher book value than melt value at the moment, but that's getting tricky when even a 90% US dime has more than NZ$13 worth of silver in it now.  Even our tiny 50% 3d coins have over $4 worth of silver in them now at current prices.

What? Me Worry

Yes, I feel the ship has sailed, but to what end, I can't imagine.

Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac

I almost sold scrap silver coins @ $44 US an ounce back in September last year. Glad I didn’t. Now worth +- 110. 🤔😊

Problem is no one wants to touch scrap now, as it is so highly priced. Some dealers are offering $30 back of scrap per ounce, so more than silver was worth a year ago.

 

Pretty much have not done any major coin buys this year for good reason. Just in January, silver has gone from $78 per ounce at New Year to $112 currently, with it finishing over $100 every day. The only plus is the NZ $ has strengthened from 57c to 60c, mostly thanks to Trump's incompetence.

 

Out of interest some current prices for British precious metal coins in NZ $

 

Sovereign - $2,058

Half sovereign - $1,029

5 Pounds - $10,287

1 Ounce coin at .9999 purity - $8,729 (5,234 USD)

 

Sterling Silver coins are around 315x to 320x Face value so

 

Crown - $157

Half crown - $78.67 (FV in new money = 25 cents)

Florin - $62.74

Shilling $31.37

Sixpence $15.68

Threepence $7.84  - seriously for a tiny 3 pence with 1.3 gramos of silver in it.

 

For selling these prices would be rounded up to $160, $80 etc or at least nearest full dollar.

 

50% silver is at 190x Face value or so

 

Crowns - $95

Halfcrowns - $47.50

Florins  - $38

Shillings - $19

Sixpences - $9.50

Threepences - $4.75

 

Silver is $6.08 a gram or $3.69 American, a dime has between 2.1 and 2.25 grams of it depending on wear levels - thats around $8.

I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society

I stopped in my coin shop yesterday to pick through their world coin boxes, and they didn't seem thrilled with what's going on with silver. They said they can't even get silver from their wholesalers, but paradoxically nobody locally is buying. Everybody is trying to cash in their bullion and US 90%. So I'm not sure where the demand is coming from to drive up the price.

Hi,

I stopped buying silver coins….. and I realized that it was the best moment and opportunity to look after and complete/improve my non-silver collection!

Regards.

Pecuniae imperare oportet, non servire

I stopped too, except for a couple of cases where the coin value is higher than the melt value.
I also couldn’t sell a couple of coins at silver value

I have been able to trade some old scrap jewelry and impaired/cull coins for silver pieces that would normally have been outside my price range like this one here: 

N#53756 (1671). 

The Earth is a Triangle

Rajbarage

I have been able to trade some old scrap jewelry and impaired/cull coins for silver pieces that would normally have been outside my price range like this one here: 

N#53756 (1671). 

Can I send you all my scrap and get some of those back?

 Good work! 

Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!

Looking for pre 1783 coins

redsmithstudios

Rajbarage

I have been able to trade some old scrap jewelry and impaired/cull coins for silver pieces that would normally have been outside my price range like this one here: 

N#53756 (1671). 

Can I send you all my scrap and get some of those back?

 Good work! 

You may be able to haha, a half crown from Charles II was also there that I didn't pick up. Send me a message if you are serious. 

The Earth is a Triangle

Not really, although I do have a lot of scrap that I don’t know how to maximize.

 Was this at a coin shop that buys scrap? That’s not a bad idea. 

Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!

Looking for pre 1783 coins

redsmithstudios

Not really, although I do have a lot of scrap that I don’t know how to maximize.

 Was this at a coin shop that buys scrap? That’s not a bad idea. 

Yes, they have a few things I want to get that would otherwise be pretty expensive, key date Canadian Dollars, Ancients, a Rhodesian Crown, and some other cool stuff. I have a bunch of junk jewelry I traded for coins a long time ago (spot was sub 30 CAD then). If I turn a portion of that in, I can get some of those things, especially the Ancients. 

The Earth is a Triangle

Silver and gold just had a massive drop in spot price, with silver going from 118 dollars at the peak today to 95 dollars, and gold from 5200 to 4995 as im typing right now. Silver spiked and dropped down a few days ago but it has never dropped so much in price in a singular day. How does this even happen??

Name is Alex

It's the last bank day of the month and the biggest part of today's dip began after the American market opened.

 

My guess would be that a lot of contracts are being dumped to get spot to close (in the US) below a certain rate for this month.

And now it’s down to 78. Oh well, at least large silver coins will be affordable now. 🫤

:)

Marc16

And now it’s down to 78. Oh well, at least large silver coins will be affordable now. 🫤

Perhaps you can get someone to sell silver coins for $78/oz this weekend. Spot will most likely increase again when the US exchange closes today, since the geopolitical uncertainty has not gone away.

Its like the silver market has laid an egg.

 

Silver - durrroppped its price from $113 to $78 in one day, and has only struggled to $83. What the heck could cause such a titanic drop in price. Gold has fallen down to $4.9k. Both metals still high, but how could silver shed over 30% in one day, that just shows how volatile it can be. I probably lost over $50k in metal value in one day.

I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society

Of course anyone who bought at $118 ad sold at $78 has lost a bit, but I dont think that happened very much today.

But if your averaged cost basis is around $20, because you have been collecting for decades, you are still WAY up.

 

The end of the month falling on a friday is like a rogue wave, so that contributed, to the wave of cashing out, but I also think a single huge seller was taking all offers. 

Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac

True, but its a severe drop, 27% in one hour is like a crypto stock. Silver has been so volatile.

 

I did buy about 5 ounces of it in January including 5 x 1 ounce club metals at $139 each and they went $198 for a while and now have dropped back to $143 (Pesos de New Zealand, not America). I also paid nearly $20 a piece for some 1950s Japanese 100 yen coins with 2.88 gramos of silver in them. They would have been $5 coins in 2024.

I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society

pennyless

Marc16

And now it’s down to 78. Oh well, at least large silver coins will be affordable now. 🫤

Perhaps you can get someone to sell silver coins for $78/oz this weekend. Spot will most likely increase again when the US exchange closes today, since the geopolitical uncertainty has not gone away.

Yup! I just managed to get a philippines peso for melt value, I’ll post pictures in the additions to your collection thread.

:)

Timberrrrrrrrr

 

Major correction.

What? Me Worry

While best time to sell is now past, prices are still up over 100% since a year ago. 

Still a great time to sell unless you bought in last week 😁

Either a great time to sell or as great time to buy. After all, there's a leader of the USA who has a change of heart every single day. You simply don't get that kind of economic uncertainty every year! This forme tv personality actually thinks he's doing the country a favour by launching new trade wars, weaponizing his Department of Justice, or sending ICE into a Democratic state! It's a new ball of wax (&  craziness) every single day!  Such uncertainty alongside China's insatiable demand for both PM's makes it a great time to invest. It's really hard to say what to do but I know a LOT of people who have little faith in currency (& I don't mean USD but in Euros, Pounds too). 

https://sites.google.com/view/notaphilycculture/collecting-banknotes

So, if faith in the dollar, euro and pound fail, we shoud all invest in crypto?

The end of the Trumpite junta, will see things settle down. It is how I know there is not a kind God. A good God would have struck him and Xi, Putin etc down and yet here they are, these baby boomer fossils going on strong. They seem indestructible.

 

I agree, keeping my gold and silver tight. Paper money is numbers on squares of paper.

 

I suspect silver will drop to around $50 this week, although given how wakadoo this world is now, would not be surprised if it shot back up and then down again like a rollercoaster.

I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society

Moneytane

The end of the Trumpite junta, will see things settle down. It is how I know there is not a kind God. A good God would have struck him and Xi, Putin etc down and yet here they are, these baby boomer fossils going on strong. They seem indestructible.

 

I agree, keeping my gold and silver tight. Paper money is numbers on squares of paper.

 

I suspect silver will drop to around $50 this week, although given how wakadoo this world is now, would not be surprised if it shot back up and then down again like a rollercoaster.

I understand your reasoning and logic. If there is a God (It's a personal thing for everyone whether believers or not). No judgement either way.. Maybe we aren't meant to understand why things are the way they are. It would send us bonkers. Just a thought brother. There's nothing much that can be done about the way things are. The world isn't meant to be saved . You're smart enough to know how the world stage works in regards to all structures.

 

Some people are dreamers & others are realistic. The market flavours pragmatic realists over dreamers 24/7. To think otherwise, is delusional.

https://sites.google.com/view/notaphilycculture/collecting-banknotes

tdziemia

So, if faith in the dollar, euro and pound fail, we shoud all invest in crypto?

 

The only true value is people, land, resources and the means to project powere over them. So invest in a large family clan, fertile land with water and a bunch of guns. 

Mad Max style.

Idolenz

 So invest in a large family clan, fertile land with water and a bunch of guns. 

Mad Max style.

That sounds more Hatfield and McCoy style 😂

 

Then again back to the hills, does not seem bad right now - grab all your valuables and bury them like its AD408 in England, and the Saxons are coming!

I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society

Moneytane

The end of the Trumpite junta, will see things settle down. It is how I know there is not a kind God. A good God would have struck him and Xi, Putin etc down and yet here they are, these baby boomer fossils going on strong. They seem indestructible.

 

I agree, keeping my gold and silver tight. Paper money is numbers on squares of paper.

 

I suspect silver will drop to around $50 this week, although given how wakadoo this world is now, would not be surprised if it shot back up and then down again like a rollercoaster.

I find it Ironic you use the term “baby boomer fossils” while arguing like a boomer yourself. 

The Earth is a Triangle

I hope it drops today, I am planning to get a couple of ounces tomorrow if it does to an acceptable level. The price is still hovering around 110 CAD/ ounce, so it will be a bit more expensive than I would like. We shall see, I just hope that store hasn't sold off their melt bags yet, there are two pieces I really want to buy from there.  

The Earth is a Triangle

Rajbarage

I hope it drops today, I am planning to get a couple of ounces tomorrow if it does to an acceptable level. The price is still hovering around 110 CAD/ ounce, so it will be a bit more expensive than I would like. We shall see, I just hope that store hasn't sold off their melt bags yet, there are two pieces I really want to buy from there.  

It's currently ticking up a bit from yesterday, but that's understandable since it had dropped NZ$60 per ounce over the last 2 days (almost 30%)

What? Me Worry

Rajbarage

Moneytane

The end of the Trumpite junta, will see things settle down. It is how I know there is not a kind God. A good God would have struck him and Xi, Putin etc down and yet here they are, these baby boomer fossils going on strong. They seem indestructible.

 

I agree, keeping my gold and silver tight. Paper money is numbers on squares of paper.

 

I suspect silver will drop to around $50 this week, although given how wakadoo this world is now, would not be surprised if it shot back up and then down again like a rollercoaster.

I find it Ironic you use the term “baby boomer fossils” while arguing like a boomer yourself. 

Well I am Generation X, a generation known for its pessimissim. Boomers are more optimistic and entitled. It was mostly Boomers who voted for Trump and older Silent Generation and even Greatest generation like Orville Moberly aged 99 from Alabama etc.

I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society

So, what's next? Silver prices will start going back to normal, or is this a calm between two storms?

These last weeks have been a crazy rollercoaster, it's a mad world out there.

And for what's happening around the world, madness may be a word too gentle to describe some of these things.

 

Oh, and I visited the local coin seller this weekend, first time after the new year. Had a shock with the new prices of the silver coins. Fortunately I already have most of the silvers he got recently.

neilithicman

Rajbarage

I hope it drops today, I am planning to get a couple of ounces tomorrow if it does to an acceptable level. The price is still hovering around 110 CAD/ ounce, so it will be a bit more expensive than I would like. We shall see, I just hope that store hasn't sold off their melt bags yet, there are two pieces I really want to buy from there.  

It's currently ticking up a bit from yesterday, but that's understandable since it had dropped NZ$60 per ounce over the last 2 days (almost 30%)

 

Its at 106 CAD, down nearly 10 from the beginning of today. 

The Earth is a Triangle

Moneytane

Rajbarage

 It was mostly Boomers who voted for Trump and older Silent Generation and even Greatest generation like Orville Moberly aged 99 from Alabama etc.

This is not correct.  

Boomers (commonly defined as born between 1946 and 1964) and older generations were less than 40% of Trump voters in 2024.

The majority were younger generations.

 

This was one of the unexpected results in the election, namely that he made inroads with younger Americans compared to his previous elections.  It's well known that “bro' culture”  got behind him.

Rajbarage

neilithicman

Rajbarage

I hope it drops today, I am planning to get a couple of ounces tomorrow if it does to an acceptable level. The price is still hovering around 110 CAD/ ounce, so it will be a bit more expensive than I would like. We shall see, I just hope that store hasn't sold off their melt bags yet, there are two pieces I really want to buy from there.  

It's currently ticking up a bit from yesterday, but that's understandable since it had dropped NZ$60 per ounce over the last 2 days (almost 30%)

 

Its at 106 CAD, down nearly 10 from the beginning of today. 

The price went up since the morning, going up to 75 euros / 88 US dollars, but i doubt it'll explode in price again up to 100 dollars as quickly as it did before, if it even will

Name is Alex

I am surprised that no one mentioned that the reason there was a massive drop is because some of these super huge hedge fund managers sold off huge shares, and took profits in silver. What I’m surprised about is that it stopped at $78! To me that’s a sign that silver is strong and will continue going up. Seems like it would have dropped more when it dropped that fast. We will see if it starts going up again.  Of course who knows?

 I believe that the drop was all paper shares and not any real silver. Silver has been manipulated for decades. Now they lost control over it. Let’s see where this ends up, what happens next? 

Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!

Looking for pre 1783 coins

I didn't know why it dropped so much and thought it was Trumpanomics and those evil bankers and billionaires doing bon sabotagi to it. They want to undermine silver and gold, so we can be reliant on their candyfloss ink and chlorophyll with numbers on it.

 

I generally stopped buying silver, other than numismatic grade coins that are always going to be worth big $$$$ despite silver prices (Unless it goes to $1000 an ounce!!). I last bought bulk, junk or bullion when I bought 10 eagles and 10 britts around early October when silver was about to go over 50USD an ounce and I balked at paying over $100 per eagle (Again kiwi pesos). Now I would jump at $100NZ eagles.

 

Silver dropped to 72 US on Monday but recovered to $85 now and I suspect it will creep back as the latest “Bon sabotagi” by corrupt capitalists has failed.

I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society

I generally stopped buying silver, other than numismatic grade coins that are always going to be worth big $$$$ despite silver prices 

Yeah, the last few medievals I bought came in around $10,000/oz.  

My collecting model is a little different I guess. 😁

 

If we ever get to the point where that's junk silver, we'll be living in caves again.

[…] we'll be living in caves again.

Or more likely, coin collecting went they way of the dodo (like stamp collecting) and fiat is so debased that 10K will buy you a burger and maybe a small fries.

I'm assuming it will creep up again, people were still buying it at over $100 per ounce, having the price drop 30% will just encourage more buying and pushing the price back up again.  I think it's back up NZ$15 an ounce from where it dropped to a couple of days ago.  Currently sitting at NZ$144, up from the NZ$130 it dropped to, but a long way from the NZ$190 it was before the crash.

What? Me Worry

Yet I will be only start buying junk silver again, when its like NZ$60 an ounce, $144 is still way overheated. Fiat money might be garbage, but we still have to use. Goldbacks and barter have not really caught on yet. Yet I did trade some strawberries for some spinach a few weeks ago to a friend.

I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society

Last month I traded a roll of Libertads for some electrical work. Good deal for me as I paid about $200. for it. Good deal for him as he didn't have any silver and it was worth around $1400. at the time.

I'm sure he will report that income at tax time.

🤐

 

A bit of a tangent, but I've been learning about local (Ohio, USA) history recently and it's interesting that the AMerican “frontier” had a barter economy for much of the first half of the 19th century.  I always figured we had a mint that was striking coins, but those coins never made it out here.  People paid in grain, hogs, whiskey, bricks, lumber.

tdziemia

People paid in grain, hogs, whiskey, bricks, lumber.

Not far off from that becoming reality again

Name is Alex

tdziemia

I'm sure he will report that income at tax time.

🤐

 

A bit of a tangent, but I've been learning about local (Ohio, USA) history recently and it's interesting that the AMerican “frontier” had a barter economy for much of the first half of the 19th century.  I always figured we had a mint that was striking coins, but those coins never made it out here.  People paid in grain, hogs, whiskey, bricks, lumber.

People seriously underestimate how common barter has been for most of human history. Entire complex civilisations relied on it for centuries if not millennia, and it was common in most non urbanized regions of the world till the 1900s. 

The Earth is a Triangle

Thats part of the reason, that coins before 1800 (Well allow a couple of decades either way) are quite hard to find, as outside Europe - they were not widely used and even if they were - the number of types was grossly limited (Like the cash coins of China, or the lumps of silver from Siam). But around 1800 as most of the world was discovered or colonised, if not already part of Europe - coins really took over. The USA got their coins in 1793 (Before that date, they had a handful of coppers and scrip), most of Latin America started making their own coins after the Independence wave of the 1820s.

 

Our part of the world went from no cash at all in 1770, to an entire money economy by 1865 (Early colonial period still saw coin shortages and bartering). The last part of the world to get truly coined up was sub Saharan Africa outside South Africa - and this part of the world only went to coins in the early 1900s.

 

Add to that the technology, machine made coins started in France (Proper steam press coins, not screwed milled which took ages) in the 1790s and reached the UK by 1816 - but really took until the 1850s to cover all Europe and some of the Hispanic republics (You still get milled looking coins in 1850s Equador and Bolivia). This technology meant zillions of coins could be made and quickly, along with distribution networks.

 

But we are heading backwards, most of the 3rd world has inflation issues, coins went from gold and  silver worth money, to lumps of plated steel and aluminium that is near worthless.

 

Gold and silver both rose early this trading day (Weds 4th Americano time), going to $5.1k US gold and $91 US silver, but now have slumped back down to $4.9k and $84 US.

I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society

tdziemia

I'm sure he will report that income at tax time.

🤐

 

A bit of a tangent, but I've been learning about local (Ohio, USA) history recently and it's interesting that the AMerican “frontier” had a barter economy for much of the first half of the 19th century.  I always figured we had a mint that was striking coins, but those coins never made it out here.  People paid in grain, hogs, whiskey, bricks, lumber.


Modern day stock exchange listed forward contracts, futures and other derivatives  were originally based on hogs and grains before they began to be applied to other things. it started way back in Mesopotamia, first formalized in Japan, and employed in a modern stock exchange in Chicago 

 

coins in the way we understand them  of course have been in continuous usage in Rome, greece, persia, India and China millennia before the rest of the world, including most of Northern, Eastern Europe, the America’s or Africa used them. 
The again there is nothing to say that coins were better than cowrie shells for instance, they both get the job done. these days they are mostly considered a nuisance :)

 

https://blog.ampglobal.com/history-of-futures#:~:text=Futures%20Trading%20in%20the%20ancient,Samurais%20were%20paid%20in%20rice.

ashlobo

 

The again there is nothing to say that coins were better than cowrie shells for instance, they both get the job done. these days they are mostly considered a nuisance :)

I agree.  

Large parts of the world never needed to tie their currency to silver or gold.    

Soon enough all currencies will be tied only to electrons, and the silver and gold will be back to their original functions and other ones for which they are uniquely suited. 

It looks like silver has taken a real dive today, down from $86 to $71 US an ounce, another attempt by capitalists to squash it I think. My guess is a certain orange piece of crap is to blame.

I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society

I sold some gold at US$4000. just to see how it feels. pretty happy, basis of the lot was $1650, 

so 240% gain. A gift to a niece, to set her right , who has gone back to school , at 42…mfw

Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac

Looks like I missed my shot to sell my scrap silver at the peak.  I guess I'll just hold onto it for now.

What? Me Worry

neilithicman

Looks like I missed my shot to sell my scrap silver at the peak.  I guess I'll just hold onto it for now.

That is one of those hard things. That’s why I sold some at $60 an ounce. At that moment, that was most likely the peak. How could I expect it to shoot past up to $110?

 Now might be the best time to sell your scrap and use that money to transfer into a bullion coin or something after the price drops some more. 
 Or silver might go back up! We are not day traders, we are collectors who happen to own a valuable commodity. In the past I have always missed these opportunities because I didn’t know how to take advantage of them. 

 It would be great to make a lot of money off of silver, but I have to remember, it’s never been why I own it, and it’s never been the way I provide. 

 But I will still try to make something. My fear is that I will sell and the price will never come back down and I’ll never be able to rebuy. 
 For example, if I sell everything at $110 and then the US dollar collapses. I’d rather not have sold in that scenario.  

Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!

Looking for pre 1783 coins

At least for me, coins are valuable for what they are, regardless of what they are made of. 

 

That said, I have experienced the inflationary period late 70's, early 80's. So since my 20's I have not trusted Fiat currency. In accumulating gold and silver, I've tried to get junk or gov. bullion. 

Over the years, I have played the stock market, tried commodities, speculated here and there, hoping for an easy buck. Long term, they have always failed. I'm beginning to suspect the system is rigged, and I don't play that game anymore.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is coin collecting and bullion accumulation should be separate, and one shouldn't influence the other.

Yes I agree, but when prices reach this high, a lot of my collection is worth 3x its numismatic value. So I should probably sell everything and buy it all back in later with a huge profit! 

 All in much higher grades mind you…

 what do you think about this article?https://blockonomi.com/jpmorgan-faces-silver-manipulation-claims-after-historic-32-crash-wipes-out-2-5-trillion/

“Real buyers continued paying premium prices for actual metal while paper prices plummeted.”

Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!

Looking for pre 1783 coins

redsmithstudios

Yes I agree, but when prices reach this high, a lot of my collection is worth 3x its numismatic value. So I should probably sell everything and buy it all back in later with a huge profit! 

 All in much higher grades mind you…

 what do you think about this article?https://blockonomi.com/jpmorgan-faces-silver-manipulation-claims-after-historic-32-crash-wipes-out-2-5-trillion/

“Real buyers continued paying premium prices for actual metal while paper prices plummeted.”

Thing is, a lot of what you sell will be melted. Gone. If you value it beyond just crap or junk, do not sell. And yes, JP has long manipulated prices for profit, and physical still sells for higher than paper, especially in the East. The spot price as I am typing this from numista is 102.70 CAD (using this coin: N#49355) while here in Canada, TD is selling their generic one troy round for 111.40 Cad/per (About 10 bucks, the cheapest I could find) and 117.90 for a 2026 Maple on Silver Gold Bull. The prices in stores are actually higher than that rn, and a near 20 dollar premium is not normal, even as a percentage of spot here. At least the rounds aren't unreasonable. 

The Earth is a Triangle

Thanks, redsmithstudios, but I can't access the article, like about 50% of everything on the internet with my old phone. 

I am fairly certain J.P. Morgan is one of the major players behind the silver manipulation of late. My stance is that trying to time the ups and downs is risky at best. If the market was more stable, perhaps.  Overall, I would rather hang on to my scrap, junk, and culls, because it's tangible, instead of scraps of paper. 

spauldingph

Thanks, redsmithstudios, but I can't access the article, like about 50% of everything on the internet with my old phone. 

I am fairly certain J.P. Morgan is one of the major players behind the silver manipulation of late. My stance is that trying to time the ups and downs is risky at best. If the market was more stable, perhaps.  Overall, I would rather hang on to my scrap, junk, and culls, because it's tangible, instead of scraps of paper. 

 

  • Silver crashed 32% in largest intraday drop since 1980, erasing $2.5 trillion as manipulation claims surface. 
  • JPMorgan issued 633 February silver contracts during crash after $920 million fine for past manipulation. 
  • Shanghai physical silver traded higher than U.S. futures, indicating paper selling drove collapse not supply. 
  • Margin hikes forced leveraged traders to liquidate while JPMorgan’s balance sheet weathered the storm.

 

JPMorgan faces renewed manipulation accusations after silver experienced its largest intraday crash since 1980, plunging 32% and wiping out $2.5 trillion in market value within two days.

The bank’s documented history of precious metals manipulation between 2008 and 2016 has intensified scrutiny over its role in recent market turmoil.

Bull Theory raised questions about JPMorgan’s positioning during the collapse as COMEX data reveals strategic contract activity during the sharp downturn.

Historical Precedent and Current Market Structure

The U.S. Department of Justice and CFTC previously fined JPMorgan $920 million for manipulating gold and silver prices over eight years.

That case involved hundreds of thousands of fake orders designed to move prices before cancellation. Several JPMorgan traders faced criminal convictions for their roles in the scheme.

Modern silver trading operates primarily through futures contracts rather than physical metal transactions. For every ounce of actual silver, hundreds of paper contracts exist in the market. JPMorgan maintains a position as one of the largest bullion banks operating on COMEX.

According to COMEX data, JPMorgan holds substantial amounts of both registered and eligible physical silver. This dual positioning grants the bank influence over both paper markets and physical supply.

The structure creates opportunities for participants with large balance sheets to capitalize during volatile periods.

Bull Theory’s analysis points to this framework as enabling disproportionate advantages for major institutions. Market observers note that leverage-dependent traders are subject to automatic liquidation during sharp price moves.

Meanwhile, institutions with substantial capital reserves can withstand margin calls and acquire positions from forced sellers.



Forced Liquidations and Strategic Positioning During Crash

Silver prices were rising rapidly before the crash as many traders held long positions using borrowed capital. When prices reversed, exchanges raised margin requirements sharply. Traders suddenly needed much more cash to maintain open positions.

Most leveraged participants could not meet the increased margin demands. Their positions closed automatically through forced liquidation mechanisms. This created cascading selling pressure as stop-losses triggered across the market.

COMEX delivery reports show JPMorgan issued 633 February silver contracts during the crash period. Issued contracts indicate JPMorgan held short positions on those agreements.

Market participants claim the bank opened shorts near the $120 peak and closed them around $78 during delivery.

The price divergence between U.S. paper markets and Shanghai physical trading reveals additional market dynamics. Physical silver in Shanghai traded substantially higher than U.S. futures prices during the collapse.

Real buyers continued paying premium prices for actual metal while paper prices plummeted. This gap indicates the crash stemmed from paper selling rather than sudden physical supply increases, according to Bull Theory’s assessment on the matter.

The Earth is a Triangle

Moneytane

It looks like silver has taken a real dive today, down from $86 to $71 US an ounce, another attempt by capitalists to squash it I think. My guess is a certain orange piece of crap is to blame.

I can't quite envision how he could manipulate the PM markets, but if he could, I'm sure he would do it in a way to pocket some results (for example, by shorting).

It won't come as a shock to anyone that when you elect a guy conviced of dozens of counts of financial fraud he then figures out how to pocket as much as he can:  https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-corruption-uae-bribes/

To Rajbarage, I appreciate the information. With the barage of AI information out there (sorry for the play on words), I've come to rely on this forum as a good filter. 

I will just say that I find it a hoot that the article could talk about wiping out $2.5 trillion of wealth when that “wealth” was a bubble that had just been created in the last few weeks.  

Maybe the guy didn't have a straight face when he wrote those words and was just trying for some laughs.  (He sure got some from me)

tdziemia

I will just say that I find it a hoot that the article could talk about wiping out $2.5 trillion of wealth when that “wealth” was a bubble that had just been created in the last few weeks.  

Maybe the guy didn't have a straight face when he wrote those words and was just trying for some laughs.  (He sure got some from me)

That wealth isn't real, similar to a lot of other things in the modern world. 

The Earth is a Triangle

I suppose if you bought on margin at $100/oz and need to pay up now on a call, it feels pretty real.

But that's what happens to gamblers.  Sometimes you lose.

Moneytane

It looks like silver has taken a real dive today, down from $86 to $71 US an ounce, another attempt by capitalists to squash it I think. My guess is a certain orange piece of crap is to blame.

I was completely WRONG!

 

I have to fall on my sword and apologise, it was actually someone in China trying to squash the silver market. Obviously the commies have more rules about gold and silver and their keep everyone poor and stupid system is anti “bourgeois” metals I guess.

 

I haven't read much, but it leads me to think metals are rigged by the fiat system. People who issue worthless bits of paper witgh numbers on them seem to hate natural metals as they show the true worth of fake currencies.

 

The Chinese billionaire (Ironic in a country which is supposed to be communist and everyone has the same (Hic cough - non members of the CCP) income like 200 Yuang a year and the same number of corn cobs and happy grinning peasants in green uniforms), failed in his attempt and silver is back at $78 US or so, Gold is hanging close to the US $5k mark, so these high prices are here to stay.

I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society

I don't understand politics or finance (beyond the basic 1+1, USD goes down PM goes up, etc.), but I just look at the number that shows up in the ticker next to each of the PM's. Based on that, I stopped buying silver coins (bullion specially) once the ouncer hit $50+. Have some unopened 20 coin tubes of various ouncers from when silver was around $25 an ounce. I feel like a millionaire 😄

 

However, I started saving up for the 2026 ASE which released yesterday at $173 and $175 for the congratulatory set, and picked up 3 at release time from the physical US Mint store in DC (website of course was lagging). Interestingly the resellers (APMEX/JM Bullion/eBay/etc.) have already listed them for $350 for the congratulatory one. Given the current market, is anyone even buying these (or other bullion) from these resellers? 

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