Mintages of standard and Proof coins for Slovak coin sets

I have finally decided to research the topic of Slovak proof coins, because the mintages given by Numista seemed unreasonable.

For example:

N#2489

Lets look at year 2002. Here proof has a mintage of 16 100, which was completely unreasonable, since I have never seen one. The coins found in sets are clearly not made in proof quality.

While here: N#2486 , no proof coins are listed at all, and the yearline has just “In sets only comment”.

I have been able to find the old version of Kremnica mint website on wayback machine which has all these sets. (Currently they do not show any information unfortunately.)

For 2002 they list 2 sets with standard (I suppose just UNC coins): https://web.archive.org/web/20080916184406/http://www.mint.sk/arch_nbs_2002.php

Total mintage is the same as the mintage for “proof” coins given by Numista, so it seems Numista is wrong here.

Why do I think they are not proof? Looking at other years that definitely has proof sets (2000 and 2004) we see that they marked proof sets as proof:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080919033742/http://www.mint.sk/arch_nbs_2000.php

https://web.archive.org/web/20080924011615/http://www.mint.sk/arch_nbs_2004.php

This would mean that in 2002 no proof sets were issued.

However, before requesting the deletion of yearlines, I want to ask if anyone knows whether the non-proof sets had just standard (UNC) or BU quality coins in them? 

Also, if I am wrong anywhere (for example there are other sources that are as credible as the mint itself that claim these coins are proof), please correct me.

The information from SCWC 46edt and 13edt

Mint sets until 2001:

Mint sets from 2001:

Also an important question*, should BU and standard coins even be separated? Because, without the packaging BU and a better quality strike (for example first strike) coins are indistinguishable. (It seems that SCWC does not separate them)

*Although this question would require a separate discussion.

Sjoelund

The information from SCWC 46edt and 13edt

 

Mint sets until 2001:

 

Mint sets from 2001:

Yes, the fact that SCWC did not list proof sets for many years, while Numista did, was also a reason I wanted to research this topic. Thank you for posting pictures!

I'm always suspicious when SCWC and numista differs! If numista is right, then “some” documentation MUST have been given in the Change Request, but where is it now?

I think referees can check the history of changes? I saw it somewhere in the forum, but I am not sure

If yes, maybe one of the master referees or administrators could check it? Because Slovakia does not have a separate referee

Just checked SCWC again. I think I misremembered, Numista is consistent eith SCWC and it came from there:

But as we can see from the mint website, they only issued non-proof sets in 2002 for example. (And I personally also haven't seen a single proof set from that year, which is not possible considering the mintage)

I think SCWC is wrong here

Edit:

Probably a similar situation to Croatian sets:

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic162209.html

(I still haven't started to change them. Probably should)

Ma9nWaRr10

I think referees can check the history of changes? I saw it somewhere in the forum, but I am not sure

If yes, maybe one of the master referees or administrators could check it? Because Slovakia does not have a separate referee

@Jarcek 

Ma9nWaRr10

Just checked SCWC again. I think it came from there:

But as we can see from the mint website, they only issued non-proof sets in 2002 for example. (And I personally also haven't seen a single proof set from that year, which is not possible considering the mintage)

 

I think SCWC is wrong here

I would not know, I just found the data in my SCWC, but mintages are not fascinating me. Have a good hunting.

Found this website:

https://www.numizmatik.eu/c/mince/slovensko/sady-minci?view_style=grid&id=product-list-c210&view_count=16&pagination_page=128&price_to=454&view_sort=position

which lists all sets. (Technically because they sell them, but they also list those not available currently, so I think it is good enough to be used as a catalog).

They actually feature even more sets than the mint website. After looking at those, I am convinced they are also official (even if not listed on mint website), because they feature name/logo of the bank/mint.

Basically what I found for now is that on proof sets it agrees with the mint website. Both have these proof sets listed:

• 2000 - 2900 ex. (consistent with SCWC and Numista)
• 2004 - 2000 or 2200 ex. (Mint gives a number of 2000. numizmatik.eu separates this set into two, with and without signature, and assigns mintage only to signed (200). Both 2000 and 2200 seem plausible. I will search for more info. The point is Proof sets exist)
• 2006 - 2000 ex.
• 2008 - 4000 ex. (Kremnica mint claim them to be proof like. But they also claim all Euro proof sets to be proof-like. More about this in the next post)

I did not find any information about the existence of proof sets or individual proof coins in any other years, so I think there were no proof coins in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005 and 2007. (Neither SCWC, nor Numista claim existence of 2003 and 2007 proofs). What further supports this is that only some coins have those yearlines, while other do not, but for those 4 years, that definitely had proof sets, consistently appear for all coins.

I think SCWC made a mistake here, and it was transferred to Numista. I will request deletion of those yearlines

About proof/proof-like:

For some reason, Kremnica mint considers all Euro Proof sets and the (1) 2008 Proof set to be Proof-like. 

Except for (2) one from 2009 (questionable), and (3) some sets issued only for NBS protocol purposes (so not available for retail, and probably never will be).

(1)

2008 set, which they consider proof-like

(2)

2009 set mentioned as proof and proof-like

In the annual report this 2009 set is also mentioned as proof-like, so I suppose it should be proof-like:

Apart from these commemorative and collector coins, Mincovňa Kremnica on behalf of NBS produced 110,100 euro coins in each denomination that were minted in Proof–Like or Brilliant Uncirculated condition. The coins were used for five different annual collector sets that were sold by Mincovňa Kremnica. NBS arranged the sale of other numismatic products through domestic and foreign contractual partners.

https://nbs.sk/_img/documents/_publikacie/annualreport/arnbs09.pdf

(3)

I went through all records given by Kremnica mint and NBS provided here:

https://www.mint.sk/en/issue-plan-mint-kremnica-2009

https://nbs.sk/en/banknotes-and-coins/euro-coins/circulation-coins/coin-sets/

They clearly distinguish proof and proof-like finish, and to all (general) Slovak sets they assigned proof-like (or “SU” - “special uncirculated”). CoAs and packaging, which has coin finish written on it also claims they are proof-like

However, what I also found on the NBS website, is that they did issue proof+prooflike sets for protocol purposes. They do not explain what coins are proof and what are proof like, and only show 2023-2026 sets. I haven't been able to find records of protocol sets existing earlier. In all years those sets have a comment “Only for NBS protocol purposes”, so I suppose whatever coins are proof in them, it is unlikely they will ever be available for collectors.

https://nbs.sk/en/banknotes-and-coins/euro-coins/circulation-coins/coin-sets/

SCWC also does not list proof for any of general coins:

But does list proof sets: (not sure how that is supposed to work)

All while Numista has those yearlines as proof. Example: N#5088

Summary:

Both NBS and Kremnica mint claim that all Slovak “Proof” sets are Proof-like. So does SCWC, but somehow also lists proof sets. Numista has those yearlines as Proof.

Should we change the yearlines from Proof to Proof-like? 

I think that primary source should be considered more important than whatever was used to create those yearlines.

@Jarcek can you please check the history of euro coins too?

There us nothing in history regarding this.

Jarcek

There us nothing in history regarding this.

Okay, thank you for checking!

I will request the deletion of previously mentioned yearlines for pre-euro coins.

The question whether Euro sets are proof or proof-like remain. I'll try to do more research

Edit:

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic176540.html