I recently came across a Canadian 1858 1-cent while going through my grandfather's old coins. The unique thing about the coin, is that it has coinage orientation ↑↓ rather than the usual medal orientation ↑↑. My question is, how rare is this coin? Is it worth sending in to be authenticated/graded?
ummm.... your coin is either fake, or SUPER rare. Like only 2 examples have been certified to date. message me if you want more information, or a place to certify it
In fact, I was just going over the 1858-1859 pennies yesterday and decided not to request the ↑↓ to be added to the catalogue just because of its extreme rarity
I can't imagine it is a fake. My grandfather had this coin along with a few other old Canadian coins in a lock box along with important documents, ie. green cards (they moved to the US from Canada when my dad was a boy). My dad remembers looking at the coins as a kid, they didn't realize there was any value to them. My grandfather died over twenty years ago, and my father gave me the coins, which I put in a box with all my other "collectible coins". When they stopped minting the Canadian penny, I read an article that mentioned 1858 being the first year the penny was minted. I looked through my coins, and sure enough, had one. Only after further research, did I find that most were minted with medal orientation. I plan on sending the coin to NCGS for authentication, as the local coin dealer deals with them. Is this the right step, or should I use a different company? I have heard many different things about this coin, with prices anywhere from a few hundred up to thousands of dollars. So far, no one has been able to point me to any info other than the coinsandcanada.com site (thanks fourmack) that even mentions my coin.
Citeer: melocheI can't imagine it is a fake. My grandfather had this coin along with a few other old Canadian coins in a lock box along with important documents, ie. green cards (they moved to the US from Canada when my dad was a boy). My dad remembers looking at the coins as a kid, they didn't realize there was any value to them. My grandfather died over twenty years ago, and my father gave me the coins, which I put in a box with all my other "collectible coins". When they stopped minting the Canadian penny, I read an article that mentioned 1858 being the first year the penny was minted. I looked through my coins, and sure enough, had one. Only after further research, did I find that most were minted with medal orientation. I plan on sending the coin to NCGS for authentication, as the local coin dealer deals with them. Is this the right step, or should I use a different company? I have heard many different things about this coin, with prices anywhere from a few hundred up to thousands of dollars. So far, no one has been able to point me to any info other than the coinsandcanada.com site (thanks fourmack) that even mentions my coin.
The Krause 2010 Canadian catalogue puts the values at: 500, 1000, 1500, 2500 and 3500 at G, VG, F, VF and EF respectively. But in the current trend values the coin prices have been omitted and all it says is "Rare - only two examples certified to date".
I've never heard of NCGS, and I would actually advise sending to the Canadian company ICCS. They are the leading Canadian coin certification company and very trusted by Canadian dealers and collectors. I myself only buy ICCS coins for any Canadian coins of value. They also publish population reports of how many coins they have graded and in what dates, but for some reason have no working website. Again, feel free to ask me for more information, but here is their general information:
International Coin Certification Service INC.
2010 Yonge St., Ste. 202, Toronto, Canada M4S 1Z9
Phone: (416) 488-8620
Honestly, I would highly recommend calling them just to explain what you've got. They have sketchy opening/closing times, so I would call during a week day before 4pm.
I had the name of the grading company wrong. I sent the coin out this morning to be graded by NGC, who I heard is a reputable grading service. Of course, if the coin is able to be authenticated, I have no problem sending it out to a Canadian grading service to be evaluated. I appreciate all the input, and will update this post when I get more information. Again, thanks for all the help.
Citeer: melocheI had the name of the grading company wrong. I sent the coin out this morning to be graded by NGC, who I heard is a reputable grading service. Of course, if the coin is able to be authenticated, I have no problem sending it out to a Canadian grading service to be evaluated. I appreciate all the input, and will update this post when I get more information. Again, thanks for all the help.
Great, please do keep me updated as this seems to be pretty cool news. And NGC will be fine, it's just that they are pretty expensive (or so I've heard).
I received the coin back from NGC today. Unfortunately, they deemed it "not suitable for certification". They did authenticate it, but did not give a variety distinction. So...what is the next step? Do I send it to a different company and hope they certify it, or cut my losses and enjoy knowing I have a unique but badly worn coin?
This is quite a late post, 5 years after the fact. Here's the reason for the post:
I was lucky enough to purchase a deceased collector's album of Canadian one cents dating 1858 to 1968.
The 1858 large cent is coinage orientation, and it is currently at ICCS for grading.
I had graded it VG-8; however, the reputable LCS that sent it in for me said it could be graded as high as F-12.
Reviewing Charlton's 2018 Guide (page 41, I think) it shows that there are only 3 graded 1858s of this orientation. In the initial postings in this string in 2013, one poster mentioned there were only 2 known graded examples, so my question is whether the original poster had his coin included in Charlton's as the 3rd example.
The next question would be if he ever sent it to ICCS to be graded? Result was...?
My search is for a correct valuation for my coin. Charlton does not list a value; CoinsandCanada does list values, but it is a head-scratcher how they ever conceived of those values if there are only 3 examples. Does anyone know of any sales of 1858 coinage orientation have occurred?
Wealth101,
I sent my coin in to be graded by NGC. The coin was authenticated, however, the condition was deemed too poor for them to encapsulate. Shortly after being authenticated, the population changed from 2 to 3. I can only speculate that this was caused by my coin being recognized. Congrats on your new acquisition. It is a humbling feeling to own 1 of 4 known specimens in existence. To date, I have not sent it to ICCS to be graded, though I may at a later date.
Thanks Meloche.
That answers one question, as it is likely it was your coin that caused them to list 3 known.
Since yours was a poorer grade and it was included, it makes me wonder what grades the others were given.
As my LCS owner stated, in response to my question about its possible value"If you lost this coin, how would you ever replace it?" Therefore, he was suggesting $5,000 to $15,000 (his guesstimate). I can't argue with that.
And it again brings up coinsandcanada listing the value for F-12 as $1,750. What did they compare it to?
Anyway, I was lucky to find it, and luckily noticed the coinage orientation. I'm finding other very interesting coins in the collection I purchased.
If you could send me pictures of your coin, Meloche, I'd appreciate it. The ones you posted above looked reasonable, maybe an AG to G grade, although I couldn't tell if it's corroded.
Thanks
Robert
Definitely I will keep everyone informed. I should get the coin back from ICCS in about 10 days.
I'm sure if it's authenticated and graded, the news will spread through the coin community quickly.
Citeer: "meloche"Wealth101,
I sent my coin in to be graded by NGC. The coin was authenticated, however, the condition was deemed too poor for them to encapsulate. Shortly after being authenticated, the population changed from 2 to 3. I can only speculate that this was caused by my coin being recognized. Congrats on your new acquisition. It is a humbling feeling to own 1 of 4 known specimens in existence. To date, I have not sent it to ICCS to be graded, though I may at a later date.
Meloche, I notice that your coin has the same orientation as mine, about 170 degrees. ICCS graded mine F-12 and called it Upset Dies, as opposed to coinage orientation. Supposedly, this means the actual dies were placed at incorrect positions, rather than slowly rotating out of position.
If you send yours to ICCS, they'll certify it for about $10.
