I'm back from vacation since a few days and I've been very concerned about the problems which happened during the last weeks on Numista. I took a few days to analyse the situation and hear the opinion of all parties, and I now took a decision.
Shamikb opened false accounts without permission with the purpose of scamming another member of Numista. Moreover, after he was discovered, he posted unacceptable comments on the forum and repeatedly harassed other members. As a consequence he is definitively banned from the forum.
Since until then he has been a respected coin collector, he is still authorized to swap coins on Numista. If any new problem occurs in the future, his account will be closed.
Pnightingale and Torontokuba also took part in an unacceptable war on the forum and posted offensive messages. Whoever was the first to be offended, self-moderation is necessary to keep a friendly environment. As a consequence, both of them will be temporarily banned from the forum for 7 days.
The forum policy has been slightly modified to further specify that political statements are forbidden. Please all of you pay great attention to the forum policy, which has been infringed several times lastly. Bam777 will keep making his best to ensure that the rules are followed.
I hope that a calm atmosphere will be restored here. I may take more sanctions in the future if necessary.
How about all of Shamikb's extra accounts? As far as I know there is at least one still open, is this not a breach of the sites rules? Can not all the accounts except his main Shamikb one not be removed
Citeer: neilithicHow about all of Shamikb's extra accounts? As far as I know there is at least one still open, is this not a breach of the sites rules? Can not all the accounts except his main Shamikb one not be removed
There is only one extra account left, with the username "Shamikb2" (previously "Shamikb", after the original account was deleted). The restored "Shamikb" account and the "Shamikb2" account will be merged to avoid confusion.
Edit 1 hour later: The accounts have now been merged and only "shamik" is left.
I'm sorry but you ban him from the forum because he become a scammer then still allow him to swap ?
Both Phil and Kuba were defending themselves in the absence of a leader can you blame them? I don't. Unfortunately this ruling without making much of an appearance doesn't work as we've had this a few times now your team need more administrative powers to ensure things like this can be dealt with swiftly, rather than 2 weeks down the line.
We've lost a great member because of your decision to ban him for the week, I guess out of moral he's deciding to stop. I don't blame him either though, I am going to just use the catalogue from now on with an occasional swap with members I've already dealt with since established members have turned into what In my opinion is cyber stalkers.
I don't think Shamik is a scammer. He opened (or made other people open) several accounts to try to cheat a member he accused to be a cheater as a revenge. I try to take a fair decision, although no solution is perfect.
Phil and Kuba posted very offensive messages to Shamik and other members. I understand they were offended too, but Numista forum is not a place for such arguments.
I think bam777 did a good job and reacted promptly to delete the most offensive messages. It's bad luck this happened in the short time when both him and me were on vacation. If other members want to join us for forum moderating, please contact me.
Ok, I can't be a part of the forum anymore as I do not agree with it, nor will I be swapping with any new members unless they post first. Only people who I've dealt with. I'm sorry but for me asking for more
Moderators is too little too late..
The forum should be a friendly, helpful place with people who are both knowledgeable and novices in learning. Regarding scammers, we need to be more strict; we need new moderators to combat a growing evil on Numista. Our regular members should not partake on the action, and we don't need any cyberbullying to prove a point.
After working on Numista the past month, I've been absolutely exhausted. Working on the catalogue like every summer, I thought, would be a walk in the park. But after all the slander and hatred boiling over, I felt like it was an added weight, and working on the catalogue was like wearing a yoke, and for what?
Ben did a fantastic job moderating the site, closing topics that became too brash and biased, and hunting down on who the scammer really was. But from my experience on Numista, I must say that it is very tough to work alone, to be hated if someone disagrees with your actions although they are right, to pull your hair out to have only one thing accomplished.
Numista is really great, it's a beautiful thing, it's a miracle. We all love Numista. When someone undermines the website's qualities, it undermines the members who are dedicated. We need to beef up our moderating, and I hope the right people, the ones who are responsible and dedicated, will become a part of the Team.
Kenny
- Verifying your Asian and British-territorial coins everyday with the best quality photos and the best information.
As much as I disagree with allowing him to remain swapping, I think it was the only course of action that is within the rules. There was no evidence that he was scamming people as there were no negative feedbacks on any of his profiles, If he was actually scamming people then there would be people complaining about swaps. banning him from the forums is a good idea as his comments were nothing but a cancer on the forum. But if he does start to go rogue I hope the team members step in fast to shut him down.
To the site administrator and moderators. Please be aware that despite being banned from the forum, the member in question is still spreading his hate-filled extremism from his profile page and by PM.
I want to stay away from the complete discussion, but want to support the message of smartonekg.
Please note that your work and effort are really appreciated!!!
I have emailed Xavier to inquire about joining the team and I'm up for it if I'm wanted. I think Smartone is right it just needs a few more people to help out. The issues we face on Numista will be the same on any other site and I don't think it is as simple as saying oh well maybe the grass is greener on the other side we have to pull together to make it work.
Shamik has done this mistake because you were not around to help him. It was a natural reaction by him when someone is criticizing your religion, faith and region and also keeping in mind the fact that no one was able to control the situation at that time.
Shamik is a great contributor to Krause publication and Numista. Therefore it is a humble request to also allow him to participate in forums in order for him to update users with new arrivals and varieties, especially on Indian coins.
I hope that he has learned from his mistakes and will react with responsibility in the future. I will appreciate your consideration on allowing him to be a full member of Numista soon.
I believe that self control is an important thing. Judging from the profile Shamikb had this morning I am not sure that he has learned from his mistakes, yet. The ban stays.
I was there during the argument and Shamikb started all nice as pie. Then, when not getting what he wanted he stepped up a notch into a very aggressive character. I'm not going to let someone back on the forum; just like that!
I acknowledge your words of support and take them all into consideration.
Citeer: mic-w-nlWhat a pitty we have and will lose some of our best collectors, swappers and forum entertainers by this stupid bickering! I disagree the decision.
The site owner doesn't care about your disagreement or anybody else's.
I know nothing of the conflict between shamikb and moderators. But I thank him for messaging me about his issue with asblasco43. I still have unresolved issue with asblasco43 (which will be resolved, I hope, nevertheless he left Numista).
Well, maybe shamikb crossed the line. But the penalty is too cruel. He is a serious collector, I've been swapping with him successfully. He had dozens of positive ratings afair.
Maybe there's still time to settle things down, calm down and get him his ratings back?
I will not teach how to manage things, cause is not business, but I would like to share my point of view and experience on this kind of cases.
I mentioned "experience" because I was in charge of things for many years in different activities and at different levels. I have a store, started working 41 years ago with my dad, and learned how to manage disputes "on the go". Gradually I was climbing on taking decisions, and then my younger brother also started working with us, and later my son; family disputes can be very difficult to solve, because there is not the option to ban someone, or not allow to participate in certain activities.
I was president of our National Motorycycling Federation for 7 years; with great success and growth of activities and number of members; and number of problems too.
I was president of our National Association of Tire Dealers (as that is my working activity) for 5 years; also we had a great growth of activities and associates; and of course, problems.
I was Tournament Director on Internet for a gaming site (Dominoes, Gin, Canasta, and so many other games); and at certain moment I reached to be in charge of one of the "leagues" (game). I could manage the league as I thought should be done, and facing the problems too.
In all those activities I had to face disputes, scammers, and bad persons; and for sure decisions were not easy, and I can't say all were correct; everytime something was right, but also there was wrong details. several times I had to review decisions; mainly for leaving certain details out of consideration, but later was obvious they were important.
But my point is that those decisions should be discussed in the Managing Team, no matter that one is in charge of taking the final decision; all can put a part of their minds to solve the problem and the highest placed will finally take the best decision possible taking into account the others' opinions, and having in mind that not always this would solve the things, but only stop the problem and be a point to avoid it happen again, or at least to have a plan just in case.
The other (and I think the most important) part is letting the rest of members know the details and letting them argue about it. Do not misunderstand me; I don't say don't let people express their opinion; but the real thing is most of us would know a little part of the problem, missing most of details, and would argue too fast, without knowing most of what happened. We would not add solutions, but will make harder to control the problem.
In that Internet Games site I mentioned they even had forbidden to discuss problems, resolutions or why rules were set, out of the team; may look as a rude rule, but it works. Just think of if you are having problems with family budget, or at work; would you let know little kids what happened? and more, would you let them argue about it? i would not, because they don't know most of details, they don't have the experience, and they don't have the power to do something.
So my suggestion is not allow these kinds of problems be public, discuss it in the Manager Team, and set new rules to avoid it happens again in future; when a new rule is set, sometimes a brief explanation of why the decision was taken should be enough. At last when we join this site we agreed the rules, and to accept changes in future.
We have two ears and only one mouth, so we should hear double of what we say. And remember "all what you say will be used against you".
Please nobody feel offended by my words, this is against nobody, but for everybody's benefit.
Regards,
Daniel,
Uruguay.
Just 10 options: you understand binary, or you don't.
Catalog Referee Coins, Banknotes & Exonumia: Uruguay, Cuba, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Panama, Ecuador, Zamunda, Parva Domus and more.
Thank you Daniel. It's good to read some advice from experimented people.
Your first advice was about discussion in the managing team. I think this has been done for this issue. After I read the explanations from all parties, I had a long discussion with Bam, who is in charge of the English forum and we agreed on the sanctions together.
Unfortunately, it takes some time to meet up. For this issue, I think it would have been better to react more promptly, but both Bam and me were not present when the issue started.
Your second advice is to keep the argument out of public place. This is also a part of our politics, although I can see some limits. The problem arose on a public place (the forum) and many members took part for one of the two parties. After the sanctions were taken, I received many messages from both parties arguing the sanctions were not just. They think that they are not faulty, so they don't deserve the sanction, and the other party's sanction is not enough. In this case, I wonder if it would not be appropriate to communicate more, so that the supporting people are more aware of the full story.
However, I quite agree that public arguments' fate is to go wronger and wronger, because of self-esteem (people don't want to seem weak on a public place) and because of the "supporters" who don't know the full story and are too quick to post unreasonable replies.
For this reason, the forum policy already includes the rule "Do not discuss your problems with other members via the forum; please use private messaging." This was intended for swap problems at first.
Following to this story, I've modified the forum policy to clearly forbid discussion about politics or controversial historic interpretations. I've also told the moderators to be more strict in the application of the rules and immediately close any topic that goes wrong. The new rules come from my impression that the core of the present problem didn't arise from the original issue, but from the conversation which followed the publication of the problem.
I am glad you paid attention to my thoughts, and you replied to my posting.
So far, I can see I can't "teach" you things, but maybe a point of view from outside moderators could give a new perspective, more than what happened, is what happened after.
Arguments after resolution was taken would not do any better to things, cause usually are based on subjective thinkings, and a great lack of details. I agree sometimes it rises something that was not considered, but is too few possible.
Managers and moderators should discuss and study all the details they have before taking a decision, and I never thought it happened in other way, for sure I was not able to express myself correctly (and I have the excuse that I don't speak English). But the point is after a decision is taken, there should not be changed, since it should be taken only after it seems to be the best one, specially because of people taking part for one or other side would hardly add better things, and should only be reconsidered if appears new details unknown when the discussion was performed (not opinions; yes new elements).
Changes and modifications of decisions, usually don't fix things, and makes feel the manager team as weak and unsure of what they are doing, and the great problem is it could encourage someone to press and defy the team. I believe in democracy, but I also think it works only when everyone have a full knowledge of things when taking parties, and this is not common. Most of us are here cause we found a good site to know people, share information about this awesome hobby, and swap safely. Nearly none of the non-manager members is really qualified to take decisions that affect some or many members of the site. I'm tempted to say that a mild dictatorship will work better than a wide open government with more chiefs than indians.
Thanks again for your comments and let me say I'm glad to have found this site, with so much nice people and information for all.
Best regards,
Daniel,
Uruguay.
Just 10 options: you understand binary, or you don't.
Catalog Referee Coins, Banknotes & Exonumia: Uruguay, Cuba, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Panama, Ecuador, Zamunda, Parva Domus and more.
Citeer: adanieluyChanges and modifications of decisions, usually don't fix things, and makes feel the manager team as weak and unsure of what they are doing, and the great problem is it could encourage someone to press and defy the team.
That's not my natural way of doing things, but certainly I should take in consideration this advice.
This post is already 7 days old. The sanctions of Pnightingale and Torontokuba are now over. I will close this topic so that the forum goes back to normal.
