It's also dipped and polished like a coat button which would make it worth....... about a dollar.
Wannabee coin hustlers are a dime a dozen, people willing to pay $40 for this would be right up there with hen's teeth. Even an unwhizzed, undipped, genuinely EF example is only listed at $20+.
If you really don't know why you are rude, ask your parents. I'm done with you.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
Citeer: "nthn"Why dont you give me the revised version. Like, to expensive, I'm rude...
You don't think this is in the slightest insolent?
So you overpaid for a coin and now you are trying to recover your losses by selling it to some poor slob, for a 33% mark up? Who does that kind of thing?
The links goes to a post by an ex-member asking if anyone collects US coins. Where does it say EF or $30?
The coin might arguably be EF, that's true. I don't think so but that's not the point. It's ruined by the dipping and whizzing. If you bought it like that, you are either very inexperienced or a fool. If you did that to "improve" it's value then you ought to be ashamed.
Is any of this getting through to you? Not my circus, not my monkeys. Just don't come back crying crocodile tears when nobody will trade with you because of your reputation.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
I did not know this was dipped (if it is), that is why I bought it. I regret buying it because $30 is a lot of money for me. I did not do anything to this coin. We made the deal through PM, as you should have seen when he said "PM sent".
OK, look I understand you are young. Which is why I originally offered to explain things to you. I'm not in the habit of bad mouthing other people's coins so I asked your permission to do so with a very clear warning that you may not like the answer. Quite why you chose to respond in such an insolent manner, and what you consider rude about the truth is beyond my meager understanding.
So you bought a whizzed up coin and lost $30. Don't keep denying it, you are not going to fool anyone, not even yourself I suspect. Suck it up, learn from it and move on. There are forum rules governing trades which are in place for your protection. New members, like pytellc, are not permitted to offer sales and any coins offered must have a price and a photo. If you had conducted the negotiations in public I would like to think there are several dozen members here who would have called shenanigans long before you handed over $30. You opted to ignore the rules and took a gamble to score what you thought was a cheap coin, now it's you who has to pay the price, not another newbie getting fleeced for $40.
Yes, $30 is a lot of money for a young collector but would you feel sure that whoever paid you $40 for it deserves to be ripped off because he can afford it? That's the logic used by "change of name pending" to justify ripping off "rich Americans". Is THAT who you want to be associated with?
I'm not the type of guy who holds grudges (well, yeah I am but not usually with harmless kiddies who just lack experience) so I'll overlook your earlier insolence. We can draw a line under the earlier part of this conversation and speak of it no more. If you want, I'll show you exactly why it's dipped and exactly why it's been whizzed. That way next time someone offers you a bum coin you will know enough to pass on it.
Or you can just carry on being yet another smug kid who knows it all. Once again, the choice is yours, shut up and learn or keep flapping your gums and remain ignorant. Nobody is forcing you.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
Citeer: "kolikko99"Doesn't it bother you that the person who buys that coin for 30$ will be just as disappointed and ripped off as you?
I thought that I had gotten a good deal, until now. If someone would like to buy this, they can read all that has unfolded above, and make their offer. Apparently it isn't worth $30 then, so what would be a good price?
Citeer: "pnightingale"As you wish.
You are offering a coin with a 500% markup. Don't like it take it up with Numismedia. VF $8.
http://www.numismedia.com/fmv/prices/bardim/pricesgd.shtml
It's also dipped and polished like a coat button which would make it worth....... about a dollar.
Wannabee coin hustlers are a dime a dozen, people willing to pay $40 for this would be right up there with hen's teeth. Even an unwhizzed, undipped, genuinely EF example is only listed at $20+.
Sadly, this is what it's worth and you just have to accept it.
To deal with a few loose ends, try and get a hold of some older type coin albums. They were manufactured from non inert materials and are very highly sought after for their "coin book toning" properties. I'll post some pictures of some good examples later. A year or so in one of these will repair some of the damage caused by dipping, or even light cleaning.
Let's clear up the dipped part as that's the easiest to deal with. Dipping is submerging a coin in a weak sulphuric acid. It's the least harmful of all the many sins committed against coins when it's done by someone who is skilled at it. Too much and the coin will turn grey or even off white, over repeat it and your coin might turn dark brown or even black. If you don't remove every trace of acid it will ruin your coin completely.
It's very, very common. Not too long ago toned coins were out of fashion and people thought shiny was good. Thousands and thousands of coins were dipped and that's why nicely toned coins are so rare and bring such good prices today.
Common sense goes a long way. Your coin is 108 years old and to have gathered even the slight wear it shows it circulated for at least 25 years. During that time it was exposed to all kinds of contaminants and the oily secretions from fingerprints. Yet it looks just as clean and shiny as the day it was minted. It should have a dark grey field with the raised area noticeable lighter, not be the same tone all over.
If you look at the obverse, 12 o'clock you can even see where the coin was held while it was dipped. Amateur hour!
Dipping doesn't really destroy a coin's value unless you really screw it up. What's killing this coin is the whizzing.
I'm going to expand the pictures later and show you where it was done. I'm dodging rain showers in between cutting my hedges right now so it might not be until tonight. Unless some else has time to do it earlier?
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
It's worth $30 if you learned the lesson young and cheap, there are still people in their 70s that get taken everyday by some scam they should know is not true but they let them selves get carried along because it sounds so good. In fact "to good to be true". The guy you bought this from came here to make a profit off others, there were plenty of red flags. He tried to "swap" with me several times but only wanted to get ahead, way ahead.
the forum rules should be enforced.
Also Phil, looking forward to you wizzed explanation
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
There's not too much to explain. A whizzed coin is one that has been cleaned with a dremel with fine wire buffing wheel. It makes the coin nice and shiny and clean but leaves scuff marks all over the coin. But as the saying goes, a picture speaks 1000 words, so see for yourself
pytellc is still on numista, he has asked me for the same high value coins in my swap list 4 separate times but only offers the most worn out crap asking ridicules values in return. Too bad he has high ratings because if he sells $5 dimes to kids for $30 he is no good, beware this user! he should return the $30
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
If anyone wonders why I haven't dealt with the "whizzing" issue until now, I was waiting for some kind acknowledgement from the OP that he had read and understood the post regarding dipping and maybe, you know a "thank you for taking the time to provide an in depth explanation despite my earlier lapse in common civility". I reckon not. However as others, with more in the way of basic courtesy, have asked the same question... here goes.
Obverse-
The red arrow points to a dark crescent where the coin was held while being dipped. The red rectangles are where you can plainly see the scuffing caused by the tool. Figure 1 shows an area of the coin which retains some of it's tone because the Dremel can't fit between the rim and the lettering. Figure 2 hows the much brighter whizzed area. The difference in tone is a huge clue especially as the coin has already been dipped, thus removing much of the patina.
Reverse-
The reverse is just awful. The blue areas show major scuffing. The areas circled in red are where the edges of the letters have been rounded off during the whizzing process, this is often the only way to tell if the tampering was done by someone highly skilled.
In the words of Neil above, "what's to see?" It's so clearly been altered that a blind man could spot it. Really, anyone who can't see that this is a ruined coin needs to stick to the 10c rummage box and wait until you have acquired some knowledge before buying $30 coins from strangers over the internet.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
HI,
Because of that , I just cancelled a coin swap with Pytellc . I feel not comfortable to do this swap. The value of the swap is about 450$us. What can I do.....I confirmed the swap but now I like to stop it.
wolfgang
Hi Wolfgang, just do not send the coins. I understand not wanting to, though a simple request for photos of the coins would have put an end to the issue.
I should point out that I have had one very satisfactory swap with Pytellc with no issues. I cancelled a subsequent swap because he became unresponsive and evasive. Maybe he was just busy or lost interest but I have no problems with him personally, although several others clearly do.
I'm simply saying it is a bum coin which has been tampered with and is worthless. Both members claim that they didn't do it so who knows? Maybe they both got pinned.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
Citeer: "pytellc"Hi Wolfgang, just do not send the coins. I understand not wanting to, though a simple request for photos of the coins would have put an end to the issue.
I would not cancel a swap because of this, just ask for photos and enough communication to feel comfortable. Just be clear on everything, pytellc might be a good member or he might try to always get a really good deal in his favor, but its not determined over one thing like this post.
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
Citeer: "pnightingale"I should point out that I have had one very satisfactory swap with Pytellc with no issues. I cancelled a subsequent swap because he became unresponsive and evasive. Maybe he was just busy or lost interest but I have no problems with him personally, although several others clearly do.
I'm simply saying it is a bum coin which has been tampered with and is worthless. Both members claim that they didn't do it so who knows? Maybe they both got pinned.
So sorry, Mr. Nightingale, that I became unresponsive. I have been hospitalized since early August and have not been very active on numista because of this.
Citeer: "redsmithstudios"I think you are right. I will not cancel the swap. He offered me to send Photos, and he it looks like he is a trustful member as I can see on the ratings from other members.
Citeer: "pytellc"Hi Wolfgang, just do not send the coins. I understand not wanting to, though a simple request for photos of the coins would have put an end to the issue.
I would not cancel a swap because of this, just ask for photos and enough communication to feel comfortable. Just be clear on everything, pytellc might be a good member or he might try to always get a really good deal in his favor, but its not determined over one thing like this post.
