If the coin is attracted to a magnet you're sure it is a fake. But that doesn't mean that if it's not attracted to a magnet that it's real. There are also non-magnetic fakes. Using a magnet is the first and easiest way to make a first separation between fake and real.
The real coin is a silver coin from GuangXu Qing Dynasty, China Empire. This coin is minted in JiangNan Province, bearing value of 7Mace and 2Candereens (hence the catalog code will be y145a).
This kind of silver coin is probably the most popular and expensive silver coin trade in China. Hence, it is not surprising there are many fakes around - the risk of receiving replicas is extremely high.
The Chinese replicas nowadays are even using silver to reproduce coins. Therefore, even though you take a series of silver coin tests and show positive result, the coin can be still be a fake. Therefore, if you buy such coin, you like to buy the authenticated one instead.
Could I ask where do you obtain this coin? If you say you buy it, then good luck to you.
FYI: The market price for authenticated y145a is CNY3,500 (~USD550)
Citeer: "LCW1991"Hi,
The real coin is a silver coin from GuangXu Qing Dynasty, China Empire. This coin is minted in JiangNan Province, bearing value of 7Mace and 2Candereens (hence the catalog code will be y145a).
This kind of silver coin is probably the most popular and expensive silver coin trade in China. Hence, it is not surprising there are many fakes around - the risk of receiving replicas is extremely high.
The Chinese replicas nowadays are even using silver to reproduce coins. Therefore, even though you take a series of silver coin tests and show positive result, the coin can be still be a fake. Therefore, if you buy such coin, you like to buy the authenticated one instead.
Could I ask where do you obtain this coin? If you say you buy it, then good luck to you.
FYI: The market price for authenticated y145a is CNY3,500 (~USD550)
Hi
the coin was hidden in a bag with some portuguese silver coins and was found in the relative's house about 30/40 years ago. The Portuguese Silver ones are authentic; just this one i don't know....
Citeer: "sadoca"
Hi
the coin was hidden in a bag with some portuguese silver coins and was found in the relative's house about 30/40 years ago. The Portuguese Silver ones are authentic; just this one i don't know....
wow so that coin should have been long history. For sure I still suggesting silver coin testing (e.g. appearance comparison, weight & diameter, density, magnetic test with earth magnet, etc.) to further authentic the coin.
I've never seen a real example. Same with those Fat Man Dollars, you can pick up a dozen on a single trip to the local fleamarket but it's 100% certain they will all be fakes.
As already stated, most are just cheap cast copies which will stick to a magnet and are easy to spot. However if a coin passes the magnet test then things get more complicated. Counterfeiters can quite easily concoct a vaguely silver colored, non magnetic alloy so you will need to look up the correct weight and dimensions of a real coin and make a comparison. They will usually be underweight by a significant margin.
Slightly more sophisticated attempts have been made to compensate for the lack of weight by increasing the thickness so check that along with the diameter.
At the very high end of the forger's range are the coins made using original dies and silver planchets. These are far less common as it's quite an expensive process and needs a fair amount of skill and knowledge. They are also very hard to detect and even experienced dealers can be fooled by these.
So, magnet first, then digital scales and calipers. Anything beyond that is best avoided until you have a lot of experience in looking at and handling genuine coins and have some known good examples to compare against.
I hope your coin is genuine, having been stored since before fakes became widespread it's possible I suppose but be prepared for disappointment as the odds are very much against you.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
I don't think comparing with similar coin is a good idea.
Here's the reason. Since the coinage is not centrally administrated by the Empire, instead, they are administered by provinces, they had different design of coins among each other (not just changing the text but in some extent, the dragon look to be a little different also). This is the reason why there are huge varieties even for just one denomination.
in my opinion the best way is to compare with the same one.
Citeer: "pnightingale"I've never seen a real example. Same with those Fat Man Dollars, you can pick up a dozen on a single trip to the local fleamarket but it's 100% certain they will all be fakes.
As already stated, most are just cheap cast copies which will stick to a magnet and are easy to spot. However if a coin passes the magnet test then things get more complicated. Counterfeiters can quite easily concoct a vaguely silver colored, non magnetic alloy so you will need to look up the correct weight and dimensions of a real coin and make a comparison. They will usually be underweight by a significant margin.
Slightly more sophisticated attempts have been made to compensate for the lack of weight by increasing the thickness so check that along with the diameter.
At the very high end of the forger's range are the coins made using original dies and silver planchets. These are far less common as it's quite an expensive process and needs a fair amount of skill and knowledge. They are also very hard to detect and even experienced dealers can be fooled by these.
So, magnet first, then digital scales and calipers. Anything beyond that is best avoided until you have a lot of experience in looking at and handling genuine coins and have some known good examples to compare against.
I hope your coin is genuine, having been stored since before fakes became widespread it's possible I suppose but be prepared for disappointment as the odds are very much against you.
Hello everyone
first of all i want to really thanks to those who have been helping me with this question ;). I really appreciate your help.
I will answer to various messages at once.
- i try the magnet and it doesn't attracted the coin, in fact it seems like the magnet repeals it, i try the digital scale and it is 28gr weight.
- pnightingale, i don't know what is a caliper, can you help me?
- i'm prepared to everything, i just wanted to know if it was a coin or a medal, but the opinions i read here, made me curious and now i'd like to know if it is a real or a fake one. Is there a method to show at 90% if it is real or fake? Anyone help me?
i tried the scale, and it marks about 27g and not 28 as i said before. In the coin there is HAH and at 2 o'clock CH or CB, i can't say for sure.
Thanks
This is a weight-based CIRCULATING COIN, not a token nor medal. The value bears the weight (in Chinese measurement) of the coin.
Normally it weighs 26.86 grams, I suggest you to measure it with precision interval of 0.01 to gain most accurate measurement. Sometimes a little overweight (or unreasonably underweight) could prove to be fake.
To test the silver coin (without damaging the coin itself and economy as well), you may find a small piece of Earth Neodymium Magnet (beware it is different from common magnets), lift the coin so that there is 45' slope, then let the magnet slide from the top of the coin to the bottom. If the magnet slides very very slowly then it proves that the coin is made with high-density metal (i.e. silver/gold).
A caliper is an "electrical version" of rulers. It gives more precised measurement of the coin. It is useful when you try to authentic the coin or finding the corresponding catalog numbers.
Although most people opt for digital calipers which are great until the batteries run out at a highly inconvenient moment, I prefer an old school solution.
I bought these some years ago at our local fleamarket for $1. They do the job just fine.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
Citeer: "pnightingale"Although most people opt for digital calipers which are great until the batteries run out at a highly inconvenient moment, I prefer an old school solution.
I bought these some years ago at our local fleamarket for $1. They do the job just fine.
About this Chinese coin, here in Portugal, I asked a few numismatics, they put the coin on scale and, depending on the scale, it weights about 27 and 26.8..... is this variation strange??? Also they see the coin with a magnifying glass. They said maybe it is a real one.
I compared my coin with the image of one authenticated in NGC and it is quite similar - same Chinese symbols, same inscriptions in the coin, same diameter-39mm - and same thickness, measured with a caliper.
Also tried the magnet and it doesn't take the coin.
This coin was in a bag with some silver Portuguese coins, it was sold (by a symbolic price) to me by a cousin and it belonged to his grandfather, so according to what he says, his grandfather has the coin for about 30 years.
I can't find, here in Portugal, any specialist in Chinese Coins?
So, if the coin has all the characteristics of a real coin, we can conclude it is a real one?
What's the opinion of people here? And about the grade? XF?, VF?
Those are the images of both sides, I think last time I only put from 1 side
Very pleased to say that your coin is very likely to be real, most fakes are cast copies with blurry edges around the lettering or with bubbling on the surface, would you be able to post an image of the edge? (another determiner of a fake) Jiangnan copies are typically mismatched with other types or they do not have the year or mint mark "HAN"
Kenny
- Verifying your Asian and British-territorial coins everyday with the best quality photos and the best information.
Citeer: "KennyG"Very pleased to say that your coin is very likely to be real, most fakes are cast copies with blurry edges around the lettering or with bubbling on the surface, would you be able to post an image of the edge? (another determiner of a fake) Jiangnan copies are typically mismatched with other types or they do not have the year or mint mark "HAN"
Hi Kenny
i'm very happy to know it :)
i'm sending you the photos from yhe edge, as you asked.
I'd like to know your opinion about the condition and value of the coin.
Just kidding, you have a very rare and valuable coin here, one of the first legit coins I've seen in a long time. Next step, go to a LCS and get it graded.
Kenny
- Verifying your Asian and British-territorial coins everyday with the best quality photos and the best information.
Citeer: "KennyG"It's fake. Reason: it's Chinese.
Just kidding, you have a very rare and valuable coin here, one of the first legit coins I've seen in a long time. Next step, go to a LCS and get it graded.
Yeah, if your local dealer will submit the coin to PCGS or similar for grading and certification it's usually far cheaper than the rates for an individual.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
Citeer: "KennyG"Very pleased to say that your coin is very likely to be real, most fakes are cast copies with blurry edges around the lettering or with bubbling on the surface, would you be able to post an image of the edge? (another determiner of a fake) Jiangnan copies are typically mismatched with other types or they do not have the year or mint mark "HAN"
Hi everyone
i follow Kenny's sugestion and waiting for grade it.
Before mark this topic as solved, i'd like to know if anyone recommends me to clean te coin. Should i do it?
Kenny, Petrus, Nightingale, others, what you suggest?
Citeer: "KennyG"Very pleased to say that your coin is very likely to be real, most fakes are cast copies with blurry edges around the lettering or with bubbling on the surface, would you be able to post an image of the edge? (another determiner of a fake) Jiangnan copies are typically mismatched with other types or they do not have the year or mint mark "HAN"
Hi everyone
i follow Kenny's sugestion and waiting for grade it.
Before mark this topic as solved, i'd like to know if anyone recommends me to clean te coin. Should i do it?
Kenny, Petrus, Nightingale, others, what you suggest?
If it comes back genuine....NO good lord in this case you wouldnt want to destroy its value. Its a pretty high value coin. I'd leave it as it...has lots of history and should look the part.
