Fantasy Coins

I am still quite new to this hobby. What is the description of "fantasy" coins?

I recently purchased from eBay some coins (?) from the Sakhalin Islands (administered by Sakhalin Oblast, a Federal subject of Russia):
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231696414287?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I purchased because of the ship design's.

Alas, I cannot find them on Numista or NGC.

Kind Regards, Peter

Commemoratives perhaps?

That's what I would class as a fantasy coin, but I think it depends on an individuals idea of what fantasy means.

Commemoratives aren't fantasies. The technical definition is that they are a coin privately minted with no official denomination & currency status but intended to convey the idea of a new design, concept, or political statement.

Like the Abkhazia coins, they were minted by Russia to show that they had taken over the area from Georgia. They are not an official currency, were minted to make a political statement.

The other one that springs to mind are the Edward VIII pattern coins. There were lots of different coins minted to show what his coinage might have looked like had he not abdicated.

Thanks.

I think these fall under "political statement". During my few hours of reading about Sakhalin history and ships, one of the links claimed that due to global warming the Russian Pacific Fleet now had a year-round ice free harbour...the Sakhalin Islands.

On a similar vein, what are euro probe coins? , are these dry runs of what might be eg the eBay was north Ireland euros which of course haven't gone over yet

By Fantasy commemoratives I mean like a lord of the rings proof set or similar, They still fall under the category of commemoratives but they depict fantasy designs.

Do you mean the New Zealand set? They're not quite Fantasies either. Fantasies you can't spend. The Abkhazia coins are fantasies because although they have a denomination (psarks) apparently the people in Abkhazia use roubles. The Edward VIII coin don't have a denomination at all. The Lord of the Rings set had a value in $NZ and were legal tender, but you'd be a fool to spend them because they cost so much more than their face value, so they're a non-circulating commemorative.

Citeer: "neilithic"​Do you mean the New Zealand set? They're not quite Fantasies either. Fantasies you can't spend. The Abkhazia coins are fantasies because although they have a denomination (psarks) apparently the people in Abkhazia use roubles. The Edward VIII coin don't have a denomination at all. The Lord of the Rings set had a value in $NZ and were legal tender, but you'd be a fool to spend them because they cost so much more than their face value, so they're a non-circulating commemorative.

Just for your information about what the legal tender in Abkhazia is:
​http://www.nb-ra.org/en/TheInformationOfBankOfAbkhazia/InformationCoins.htm

So called Sakhalin isles/Daghestan/Tatarstan/Crimea tokens can be never treated as coins, as these souvenir tokens (i) have never ever been a legal tender (admitted by any authority or banks or organizations at any territory), (ii) there is no official issuer (central or national bank), (iii) the only purpose for private mint (probably Joe Lang Mint) to mint these tokens is to sell them for so called collectors.

And for sure there is no link between commemorative coins (circulating or not) and souvenir/fantasy tokens.

Should I classify these coins as tokens? https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces69785.html
This is the only one on Numista, but there are whole sets on eBay. Are they official issues? The face value, 1000 Kwacha is worth 84 USD, while the coins themselves are selling (or not) for about $20, all from either Spain or Albania. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X2014+zambia+1000.TRS0&_nkw=2014+zambia+1000&_sacat=0

Where did you find that 1000 kwacha is around $ 84? Internet gives me numbers below € 0,20.

The Numista page for the coin.

Ok, that was my fault. Zambian kwacha is around $ 84 but Malawian kwacha is a lot cheaper. Those silver rounds are made after 2013 when Zambia introduced new 1000 times stronger current kwacha, so this is very interesting indeed.

This is the "mint" where they produce and sell these rounds:

http://cecademontesclaros.com

They also mint "pesetas" :D

OK, then I will classify these as "tokens". Thanks for your help.

Citeer: "Peter M. Graham"​I am still quite new to this hobby. What is the description of "fantasy" coins?
​
​I recently purchased from eBay some coins (?) from the Sakhalin Islands (administered by Sakhalin Oblast, a Federal subject of Russia):
​http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231696414287?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
​I purchased because of the ship design's.
​
​Alas, I cannot find them on Numista or NGC.
​
​Kind Regards, Peter

​These are (unfortunately) fantasy coins. Just like the similar series from Tatarstan, Chechnya, etc.
No legal tender, but still pretty nice! (I liket ships too )

Outside of "real" fantasy coins, I've been collecting coins created to be substitutions in fantasy games such as Dungeons & Dragons, etc. in addition to my world coin collection.
I haven't been on the site long, and lord knows I'm way behind in posting my real world collection, but in browsing the forum and seeing this topic, I couldn't help sharing this (bad) pic of part of my fantasy collection. This is a set I received as part of a kickstarter campaign. They're all zinc that has been plated with gold, silver, or copper, and have no monetary value whatsoever, but I picked them up for the art and to have something fun I can display.

Cheers!
Shawn

Citeer: "subr"​

Citeer: "neilithic"​Do you mean the New Zealand set? They're not quite Fantasies either. Fantasies you can't spend. The Abkhazia coins are fantasies because although they have a denomination (psarks) apparently the people in Abkhazia use roubles. The Edward VIII coin don't have a denomination at all. The Lord of the Rings set had a value in $NZ and were legal tender, but you'd be a fool to spend them because they cost so much more than their face value, so they're a non-circulating commemorative.

​Just for your information about what the legal tender in Abkhazia is:
​​http://www.nb-ra.org/en/TheInformationOfBankOfAbkhazia/InformationCoins.htm
​
​So called Sakhalin isles/Daghestan/Tatarstan/Crimea tokens can be never treated as coins, as these souvenir tokens (i) have never ever been a legal tender (admitted by any authority or banks or organizations at any territory), (ii) there is no official issuer (central or national bank), (iii) the only purpose for private mint (probably Joe Lang Mint) to mint these tokens is to sell them for so called collectors.
​
​And for sure there is no link between commemorative coins (circulating or not) and souvenir/fantasy tokens.

​Bank of Abkhazia is also fantasy Bank, like Bank of Cabinda. Try to transfer to the Bank of Abkhazia a few dollars or " psarks" . They will answer: " we are sorry, - due to technical problems, please transfer your money into the "CENTROBANK" cell. Ask the swift/ iban. " Bank of Abkhazia" is just an account of the "Bank of Russia" ! phone number. +99544-297623 Fax: +99544-297622; These are Georgian phone numbers....
SO, Abkhazian currency is fantasy currency, fantazy coins, made by Moscow Mint in very limited quantity just to legalize term " psark".

Just for fun:
http://www.cabinda.net/CNB.htm
http://www.africastamps.org/Coin_Cabinda.htm

LEGAL TENDER COINS !!!!!

and here - fakes :)
http://www.cabinda.net/Fake_Coins.htm

There you can fond also a thread " Be aware of fake Cabinda coins ! "

best
D

These are classified as Fantasy coins: http://colnect.com/en/coins/series/country/6792-Fantasy_Issues

Citeer: "nthn"​Should I classify these coins as tokens? https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces69785.html
​This is the only one on Numista, but there are whole sets on eBay. Are they official issues?
...
OK, then I will classify these as "tokens". Thanks for your help.

Why, who says they don't have legal tender status? Just because they are not produced in an official mint?
Why are companies inventing fantasy currencies and inofficial state names and coats of arms for not conflicting with official coins when these products here blatantly use the Zambian currency name "Kwacha" and the official Zambian coat of arms? Why do companies who produce other "legal tender" ask the country for their permission if this "coin" here could be produced without a legal tender status? Couldn't real countries with a recognized currency do anything against people at the other end of the globe creating fake coins that look exactly like their legal tender?

Or are there known cases where fake coins have been created for collectors without permission and they have not been seized by any authority and still circulate on the market?

Citeer: "ngdawa"​These are classified as Fantasy coins: http://colnect.com/en/coins/series/country/6792-Fantasy_Issues

​... by the ones who classified them as Fantasy coins: http://colnect.com
What do we gain from this list?

Citeer: "androl"​Why, who says they don't have legal tender status? Just because they are not produced in an official mint?

​I think that is pretty much the definition of legal tender... Other wise it is just a... token of payment.

To me they are even less than tokens, because tokens were often used in lieu of payment in legal tender.

As far as to why it happens, it comes down to ability to enforce laws outside your country. Larger countries like the United States can go after people. Small, economically weak and politically corrupt countries have problems. Like Zambia. Look at Liberia. Most of the coins produced for Liberia, while technically legal tender were produced under an agreement with a government that doesn't technically exist anymore.

As an interesting side note, I have a Korean coin that is a Japanese counterfeit. Japan imported so many of them that the Korean government retroactively deemed them legal tender.

Citeer: "jadejackal"

Citeer: "androl"​​Why, who says they don't have legal tender status? Just because they are not produced in an official mint?​

​​I think that is pretty much the definition of legal tender... Other wise it is just a... token of payment.

​Mints who make coins can also make tokens. They are free to mint anything that isn't against the law.
And countries can decide to order their coins by any small backyard mint. That's their decision.
A token of payment is made a coin by declaring it a coin by the country (some countries don't even have legal tender), no matter where it has been made.

That Ceca de Montesclaros is located in Spain. In Germany, it is illegal to counterfeit foreign currencies in the same way as it is for euros. I don't think this is different in Spain. They need an order from the Bank of Zambia to make coins that say Zambia Kwacha, even if they only sell them to collectors. It's the same thing that Pobjoy mint, Franklin mint and others are doing.

Citeer: "Dato Mikeladze"​

Citeer: "subr"​
​

Citeer: "neilithic"​Do you mean the New Zealand set? They're not quite Fantasies either. Fantasies you can't spend. The Abkhazia coins are fantasies because although they have a denomination (psarks) apparently the people in Abkhazia use roubles. The Edward VIII coin don't have a denomination at all. The Lord of the Rings set had a value in $NZ and were legal tender, but you'd be a fool to spend them because they cost so much more than their face value, so they're a non-circulating commemorative.

​​Just for your information about what the legal tender in Abkhazia is:
​​​http://www.nb-ra.org/en/TheInformationOfBankOfAbkhazia/InformationCoins.htm
​​
​​So called Sakhalin isles/Daghestan/Tatarstan/Crimea tokens can be never treated as coins, as these souvenir tokens (i) have never ever been a legal tender (admitted by any authority or banks or organizations at any territory), (ii) there is no official issuer (central or national bank), (iii) the only purpose for private mint (probably Joe Lang Mint) to mint these tokens is to sell them for so called collectors.
​​
​​And for sure there is no link between commemorative coins (circulating or not) and souvenir/fantasy tokens.
​
​
​
​
​
​

​​Bank of Abkhazia is also fantasy Bank, like Bank of Cabinda. Try to transfer to the Bank of Abkhazia a few dollars or " psarks" . They will answer: " we are sorry, - due to technical problems, please transfer your money into the "CENTROBANK" cell. Ask the swift/ iban. " Bank of Abkhazia" is just an account of the "Bank of Russia" ! phone number. +99544-297623 Fax: +99544-297622; These are Georgian phone numbers....
​SO, Abkhazian currency is fantasy currency, fantazy coins, made by Moscow Mint in very limited quantity just to legalize term " psark".
​
​Just for fun:
​http://www.cabinda.net/CNB.htm
​http://www.africastamps.org/Coin_Cabinda.htm
​
​LEGAL TENDER COINS !!!!!
​
​and here - fakes :)
​http://www.cabinda.net/Fake_Coins.htm
​
​There you can fond also a thread " Be aware of fake Cabinda coins ! "
​
​best
​D

​
As The Bank of Abkhazia issued a brand new serie of cu-ni coins of Abkhazia (RA), it would be good to discuss this problem once again and to come to adequate solution.

I do completely agree the problem is the first two letters in the name of Abkhazia, and I would like to discuss the issue in apolitical manner.

It seems we stay on the same page when talking about the difference between the coin and the fantasy token, but there is no harmony about what the state (country) is.

Unfortunately we have lots of "countries" in the countries section, which could hardly be treated as countries, but just no one cares:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/principality-of-hutt-river-1.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/katanga-1.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/lundy-1.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/sealand-1.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/seborga-1.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/spitzbergen-1.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/tatarstan-1.html

With an honour and respect to Dato I would however notice his information about Bank of Abkhazia is not comprehensive. RA has its own banking system of 9 banks, own national payment system, and there is certainly no need to be a member of SWIFT to provide banking services. Just read any of the annual reports of the Bank of RA here to get more data:
http://nb-ra.org/files/ru/pdfdoc/ReportBA/report/01.01.2016.pdf

Thus we have all the criteria to be complied with:
(i) coins have the face value; (ii) coins are officially minted by central bank; (iii) central bank and authorities could provide all the conditions for those coins to be a legal tender.
These coins are by no mean non-circulating issues, but it is not a reason to treat them as fantasy tokens.
The mintage is also not important to determine whether the coin is a coin or not.

I do not comment on Cabinda as an additional investigation should be done. Let us hope the people from the Front of the Liberation of the Enclave of Cabinda did not read the topic yet.

P.S.
In my opinion, our main competitor engine made the right decision having separated fantasy tokens from originally legal tender coins.

http://colnect.com/en/coins/list/country/6792-Fantasy_Issues/series/195068-Abkhazia
http://colnect.com/en/coins/series/country/10985-Abkhazia

A.

Jadejackal...can you please share more about this counterfeit Korean coin that was legitimized?

This is a good start, but IMO it needs a little work:

"(i) coins have the face value"

Early US coins were not given a "face value," I assume the US Mint believed the size was the determining factor. Here's an example:


"(ii) coins are officially minted by central bank"

I would add "or authorized by the" in that statement; otherwise, you would exclude every coin minted by the Heaton or Kings Norton private mints in the UK (and there are many many other examples).

"(iii) central bank and authorities could provide all the conditions for those coins to be a legal tender."

I think a better term would be "monetized."


IMO, a lot of confusion is created by countries looking to make money by permitting non-government groups to create coins which are never intended to circulate. The Somali guitar, motorcycle, and other enameled coins are good examples. As far as I know these are made in the UK and never make their way to Somalia. Thus, there should just be an easy way to categorize these as Non-Circulating Legal Tender (NCLT) in the catalog. (It's comical that these coins are in units of dollars while in Somalia they actually used coins denominated in shillings.)

Wait guys I'm confused. N#323503
For this Lenin+ Stalin Soviet coin it still has the denomination as one rouble on it. Yet the description by Numista says that it is a fantasy coin. Does this still work as legal tender then?

I collect some of this stuff (i.e. Kurdistan) but you can't say it's NCLT, it's Fantasy, which is usually just a sales gimmic. The silver abolition series of seven (?) West African countries is a grey area. They were a set of trial coins presented to these countries as a proposal for NCLT by Joseph Lang (JL) from the Steve Album auction firm in CA. Most have a mintage of 1 - 2 thousand. It's an area of collecting that can be interesting, as long as you get them cheap. The Chinese Soviets produced what KM called Fantasies (China call them ‘Mint Sport’) that were themes based of of authentic, and extremely rare, Chinese Soviet Yuan (~1934). Those sell in the thousands because the originals can cost tens of thousands of dollars. I thought Numista had a ‘Fantasy’ category under Exonumia  (Tokens). 

 

I have visited the Republic of Abkhazia many times. Indeed, the Russian ruble is used as the currency in this country. However, the Abkhazian psark is the official currency of this state. It is not used in cash transactions, but cashless transactions are allowed. Abkhazian coins are officially sold in the banks of the Republic of Abkhazia. They are very beautiful. There are also banknotes.