German states or Austria-Hungary coins? [opgelost]

I found 4 coins which are not in catalogue. The problem is that I can not figure out where do they belong, as the coins from the same era is listed under Austria-Hungary and German states also.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/autriche-habsbourg-2.html#devise1165
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/etats_allemands-9.html#devise765



Does anybody knows something about this, because I am completely lost now.

Regards,
Jarek

We do not have Austria-Hungary but Austria and Austria - Habsburg. Habsburg absorbed all pre-republic coins except specific state coins (Austrian states) which are minted under the name of Austria. The same for Hungary which have never been splitted till now, but never unified with Austria through coinage.

Oh! Sorry, I am already sleepy, I meant Austria-Habsburg.

This is a tough one Jarcek!

The coins you mention are from the Holy Roman Empire state of Further Austria (Vorderösterreich). It was ruled by Habsburgs but most of its territory was lost to France and Southern German states during the Napoleonic wars. Only Vorarlberg remained Austrian and still is today.

In the catalogue the coins are listed under German states. I am in favour of separating Holy Roman Empire coinage entirely to solve issues like this. If not, then one might consider Further Austria an Austrian state rather than German as it was ruled by Habsburgs directly.

But geographically Further Austria is now part of Alsace, Baden Württemberg, Bavaria and Vorarlberg (Austrian state west of Tirol).

In Further Austria the language was Alemannic (same as Swiss German and Alsatian) rather than Austrian/Bavarian German dialect.

As a last trivia I did not know before: 80% of the Vorarlberg population supported accession to Switzerland in 1919. French and Italian Swiss, Allies and Austrians were against so it did not happen.

Questions like this still divide Austrians and Germans. For example, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart was born in Salzburg in the HRE. Both Austriand and Germans consider him to be one of theirs. In voting for Austrian or German of all times he was nominated in both countries.

This German-Austrian question is centuries old.

Thanks a lot for a hoard of information! I will add them to the catalogue, as soon as I find some time for it between learning for exams.

Or if somebody else wants to add them, just post here that you will do and go on. (Data is in czech, but hey, did any foreign language ever stoped a numismatic? Anyway, if you will go ahead adding them and want anything translated, just PM me.)