? Really? Why latin? I have never heard the popes referred to in english by their latin names. Why are we doing this on an english website? Are we just using the name on the coin then?
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Global policy of Numista is to take the official or the usual language (depending on the period) of the country. Papal official language has always been Latin, so all Roman Popes should be named in Latin (including Papal states either in Italy and in France).
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
Personally, if I'm searching for a coin, I will search for exactly what is written on the coin, so that is what I would like shown, but I'm also interested in what the English translation is.
But if this is just freeform text to explain what the coin is, rather than the inscription on the coin itself, then on the English side I would prefer English.
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I'm not an expert in any kind of coins, but I reckon I'm good at research and will do my best to help. Feel free to tell me my identifications/valuations/gradings are wrong. It's the only way I'll learn.
Citeer: "The Rules"If the monogram or the portrait of a ruler shows on the coin, give the ruler's name. Separate it from the face value with an hyphen. The ruler's name should be written in the country's native language. If the country's native language doesn't use latin script, write the English romanization of the name.
Local language should be used, I die a little every time I see a King Charles of Sweden... And I suppose Bohemian kings and dukes should be in Czech as well.
The popes is however a case where one could want to deviate from the rules, for practical reasons?
Citeer: "The Rules"If the monogram or the portrait of a ruler shows on the coin, give the ruler's name. Separate it from the face value with an hyphen.
The ruler's name should be written in the country's native language. If the country's native language doesn't use latin script, write the English romanization of the name.
Local language should be used, I die a little every time I see a King Charles of Sweden... And I suppose Bohemian kings and dukes should be in Czech as well.
The popes is however a case where one could want to deviate from the rules, for practical reasons?
Same issue for Roman Emperors
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
I would go for both names, as some may have problems with latin/czech symbols for example. Or maybe translations could be held in the comment section, so we would be able to search them.
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
Wait I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here, whether you use Czech special characters or not is I suppose just a matter of how you choose to "romanize" it? This is topic is about the name of the pope being translated to something completely different just to make it more comfortable for English speaking people
Well, writing names in both languages would not be the best solution after all. I believe name of the Pope should be in English - one of the arguments for me is that medieval coinage also shows Latin names - FRANTISCVS for example on Austrian coinage - and we do not write it in Latin.
Also, natural names of the rulers are there so they could be easily found by owners in respective country and romanized so they could be found in foreign countries.
As I told you, this would extend to Italian states (Papal states) and maybe a few French coins made when Avignon was the new Papal city (extending to neighbouring areas) as ruled by the Pope himself, however, by this way, these territories may be considered using respectively Italian and French as well...
And concerning Vatican City, if Latin would be expelled from the catalogue for modern countries, please use Italian as well, not English. Coins are written in Italian instead (Città del Vaticano).
Concerning Austrian coinage, for sure German would be selected as well... As I told, this includes usual language.
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
To continue my example, many Swedish kings also put their Latin names on the coins so you could choose between Swedish (Karl), English (Charles) or Latin (Carolus). I may be biased but Karl is the obvious choice to me... The same pattern would go for the Popes, use local language for names and not some foreign translation.
That's one big argument for Latin for the Pope's name: consistency. You may not like a rule but the catalog will just be chaos if anyone who doesn't like a rule can break it whenever they want...
And I agree with chomp-master, it should be extended outside Vatican as well, same as "Swedish occupation" section in Livonia should also use Swedish spelling for the Swedish rulers (right? I'm just in the process of cleaning this up, just waiting for confirmation from the referee)
Btw, how do you refer to the pope in Czech? I'm not "Vaticanese" but "John Paul" sounds a lot stranger to me than "Ioannes Paulus"
1) Suck it up and play by the rules, write the pope's name in Latin.
2) Lobby for a rule change to add an exception to the rule and use another language (English if you wish but I'd assume it's even more internationally known in Spanish) for the pope's name.
Regardless of the outcome we need consistency. People not following the rules is the reason why the catalog looks like it does, just look at the Vatican section.. It's horrible, and cheapens Numista a lot more than (some? most?) people not recognizing the pope's name...
I submitted some name changes (to Latin) when this thread started. Still waiting for response. Will do all of them after my first requests get validated. (Or non if they are not, it is up to referee.)
