I am looking for some assistance with grading this 1778 5 kreuzer. This is a bit early for what I normally collect so the type of coin is unfamiliar to me and therefore a little difficult to grade. I'm hoping someone more familiar with the series can assist.
I can see wear on the reverse to the wingtips, the detail on the crown and the eagles' heads but not too much else. The obverse appears a little better. I would estimate GVF but don't really know how well these were struck and am happy to be corrected. Sorry, I'm not the best photographer.
The metal seems to be peeled of between the I and the M.
Also the spot on the rev under the G looks strange.
Did you try one of the silver tests (magnet, ping, ice...) ?
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
As I said, this is not something I would normally collect so it is relatively unfamiliar to me so I appreciate the assistance. It was part of an auction lot where my main target was a 1797 gilt pattern farthing, so it is not the end of the world if it is fake, although naturally I would be disappointed.
So, let's start with the weight. It appears correct: I make it 2.3g but my scales are only accurate to 0.1g.
The diameter I measured at 21.5mm.
Under an illuminated loupe the spot under the G on the reverse was just dirt and I have gently removed it with a plastic toothpick.
I believe the mark between the I and M to be just a small rim nick. The metal appears to be sound but it is difficult to be certain. I've done my best with another close up. It seems to have more dirt in it.
I am less sure of the crown - it doesn't look particularly well struck to me.
I don't have an earth magnet - it doesn't stick to a normal magnet. It sounds right to me but I am by no means an expert. What is the ice test please?
There appear to be some overstruck letters. I've taken a few more close ups with a USB microscope for you to have a look at.
Ice test is to hold it by the edges and place an ice cube on the coin. Silver is the best conductor of heat so if it's silver the ice cube will melt into the coin very quickly and you should be able to feel it getting cold on the edges almost straight away. Here's a guy doing it with a silver bar
You can see number of differences. Ex. berries on the laurel branch on obverse of your coin, or branches on reverse have no basis on Kuenker coin, 6 versus 7 pearls on diadem.
If those are normal variability (different dies) or indication of approximated copy ???
Regards, André
Quand l'Histoire et la Géographie se croisent sur nos pièces de monnaie ...
Ok, I've tried the ice test and I think it passes. I also think the tone of the coin sounds right.
However, as pointed out by Ecapoe, there are a number of differences to the one linked to. I've highlighted some of the more obvious ones but there are others - spacings between letters and dots etc.
This is the Kuenker one. I do think this could be accounted for by die variations as suggested.
But there are further areas which give me more concern than the die differences (if that is the case).
There is a scrape mark by the letters SIA, but the metal is higher than the scrape marks at the very edge. I don't see how this is possible.
There is an area of discolouration that appears to be rust / verdigris.
I cleaned the dirt out of the edge nick with a little acetone and a cotton bud. Further close ups are here for your consideration:
I think I could still be persuaded either way (it would be nice if it was real) but admit it doesn't look too good. However, if I can get a definitive consensus I think I still have time to contact the auction house for their comments.
Today I took this coin to Format Coins in Birmingham, where I am happy to say that Garry Charman took very little time to confirm that it is 100% authentic. I asked him if he was absolutely sure, but he was in no doubt whatsoever.
I think this demonstrates that you really do need the coin in hand to make a proper assessment. He valued it at the princely sum of about £30. I have no interest in selling it, but am pleased to find out that it's ok.
Thank you all for your input, I am sure my own knowledge has grown as a result.
MBE
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