London Mint coinage

Recently I have become the referee of Gibraltar. I had hoped for this honor for sometime. I have lots of Pobjoy Mint issues from Gibraltar that are similar to Isle of Man issues in terms of variety and die letter. Most are aware that at this time Pobjoy has lost the coinage of both Gibraltar and Isle of Man. The new minter is the Tower Mint, of whom the owner is Raphael David Maklouf. I have had the pleasure of making his acquaintance and find him to be charming and accessible. I have noticed talk of free coin of the battle of Ypres, just the cost of postage. And I have heard opinion expressed here in the forums of disdain for this issue. So I have done some research...here it is: the London Mint is a clearinghouse if legitimate coin issues and medallic issues from mints all over the world. Commemorative coin issues in base and precious metal from diverse countries are handled. Seems that Gibraltar is handled by them as well. And this seems to fuel the controversy as to their legitimacy. But lets look at the facts. Raphael David Maklouf is the owner of the Tower Mint. He is also the designer of Queen Elizabeth II's bust as appears in these new Gibraltar issues. The reverse design on the Ypres battle coin is the former engraver of the British Royal Mint, Bonacorsi. I fear this is a legit piece. I say fear because when you look at the plethora of material that the London Mint is no doubt marketing for the Tower Mint, we are about to see marketing and issues rivaling that of the Pobjoy Mint in the 1970s and 1970s...numbered coins, base and precious metal versions...plated versions...oddly denominated versions...privy marks...but no die letters. Yet. I intend to approve these pieces as members submit them. They appear to be legitimately illegitimate issues. The designers, marketing, and issuer seem to be hand in hand. No doubt this will provoke strong emotion, but were these issues not to be included then Numista would need to delete thousands of listings...and I for one, am grateful that team members who would do that are no longer around. Thoughts my friends?

On a purely personal level I have a lifelong loathing of these pseudo-mints and their tawdry gimcrackery. Everything about them runs counter to sound numismatics. However I understand that other folks see the matter differently and clearly there's a demand or they would be out of business. Including them in the catalog in no way diminishes my enjoyment. I'm very glad that we have moved on from the high handed mass deletions of entries which users spent a lot of their free time creating.

I certainly don't ever intend to include such coins in my collection but because of the way I tend to source coins, it's very possible that I might find myself in possession of some. (Check out how many Liberian "coins" have a ©pnightingale photo!) If, in a fit of self destructive purity, I managed to persuade Dear Leader to remove any and all fantasy coins then I'd find myself unable to swap them. I'd much rather have a fully functioning swap engine than a numismatic safe space where my tender eyes will be spared the trauma of seeing a Gibraltar commemorative. Not much of a Berkley type y'know? Numismatics is being redefined by a new generation of collectors, they are the ones who will live with the consequences.

I agree those pseudo-coins should not be deleted, but I still believe they should not be mixed in with real coins.

If you stop for a minute and think about it, what kind of a coin is it that is "non-circulating" and can even legally be refused by the banks?!? Not much of a coin ─ just a money-grabbing scheme. Some of the small Pacific islands use the Australian, NZ, or US dollar ─i.e. they don't even have a circulating coinage of their own─ yet they produce that trash deluxe by the truckload.

Numista could contribute to the education of its members and the public at large by clearly distinguishing between those categories in the catalogue. List all circulating coins together, then list all non-circulating coins. I'm very happy that the Charlton Standard Catalogue of Canadian Coins has taken that approach.

I already had this out when I was the referee it’s NCLT. Belongs in *Tokens* majority of the coinage they pump out in Gibraltar’s name is not even denominated in Pence !

I have no argument with you my friends, at least not on numismatic grounds. However they are collected, and those who collect them identify as coin collectors so I reckon they have a place in a coin collecting catalog.

I have to agree that education is the best route. Refusing to acknowledge their existence or just wiping them from the catalog is the wrong approach. I'd like to live in a (numismatic) world where everyone collects coins which were passed through the hands of prince and pauper and were carried in the pockets of hopeful migrants to the new world or soldiers drowning in the mud and blood of Flanders. Coins with real meaning, which served a real purpose. But we don't, so the best we can do is to try to inspire a new generation of collectors to see what it is that we see in these worn relics.

Not just existing collectors, we need new blood. One of the reasons I'm so virulently hating on scammers is that their victims tend to be the young and the inexperienced. It's hard enough trying to get younger people to put down their iphones and video games and participate in what's regarded as a pastime for old men. When those few who do so are taken advantage of by the experienced or treated rudely by some condescending dealer they are lost forever. If coin collecting is to survive into the 21st century then it needs to undergo a rebirth, and that starts with each of us.

If these fantasy coins, or the junk released by the RCM can attract new interest then I guess we have to embrace it. Kinda like drug dealers passing out gateway drugs at the school gates. The hope of course is that they will progress to collecting "real" coins. It's always nice to see that new young members are often given a lot of free coins, perhaps though what we should be giving them is knowledge, advice and inspiration.

I did suggest a mentoring program some years ago but it received no official support and never progressed beyond the idea stage.

Non circulating legal tender is still legal tender. The designers are the owner of the Tower Mint who strikes the circulating coinage of Gibraltar, as well as one of the British Royal Mint's former designers, Bonacorsi (pretty sure I have not spelled that right). The denominations are crown, pound, sovereigns, the guinea is throwing me for a loop, but none of these are outlandish or atypical of the UK or its domains. These have all been coined...they aren't making mohurs yet... This is not token coinage. Those of us who collect modern have actually expected this. It shouldnt be a surprise that the Tower Mint wishes to milk the same cash cow that Pobjoy so successfully did for decades. At least there is first class artistry on the pieces...thankfully we can filter out that which we dont wish to acknowledge. I am not one to either expand too generously or exclude too severly. But it is walking and quacking like a duck. We should not call it a chicken.

Citeer: "Oklahoman"​Non circulating legal tender is still legal tender. The designers are the owner of the Tower Mint who strikes the circulating coinage of Gibraltar, as well as one of the British Royal Mint's former designers, Bonacorsi (pretty sure I have not spelled that right). The denominations are crown, pound, sovereigns, the guinea is throwing me for a loop, but none of these are outlandish or atypical of the UK or its domains. These have all been coined...they aren't making mohurs yet... This is not token coinage. Those of us who collect modern have actually expected this. It shouldnt be a surprise that the Tower Mint wishes to milk the same cash cow that Pobjoy so successfully did for decades. At least there is first class artistry on the pieces...thankfully we can filter out that which we dont wish to acknowledge. I am not one to either expand too generously or exclude too severly. But it is walking and quacking like a duck. We should not call it a chicken.

​it doesn’t actually circulate though. Honestly, go to Gibraltar and try to spend one of the new half crowns ha ! Non circulating legal tender doesn’t mean much. The recent UK £20 coins are only redeemable at banks for a limited time then you can’t redeem it making it useless. You see what I mean.

The East India Company actually are minting their own Mohurs too.

It is crazy out there.

Citeer: "Oklahoman"​It is crazy out there.

​without a doubt ! Scary to think how much they’re making too !

Just to throw in my twopen'orth on these private mints, it really riles me that they get away with calling themselves names like 'London Mint' and 'Tower Mint' as if that gives them some kind of imagined legitimacy. I don't suppose there is anything illegal or worthy of litigation about naming themselves such but to my mind they detract from the genuine legacy of the original Tower Mint, London where so many great historic numismatic icons have been created.

I am not sure that the London Mint is more than just a distributor. While the Tower Mint is definately a minter. In that regard how is it not the same as Heaton, or Soho, or Franklin? Shoddy product and lack of public support would shut it down soon enough. But the issues are beautiful...and affordable. Not necessarily true of the BRM...this may be their moment. But eventually it will be another's moment.

I’m probably naive but I thought that coins that bore the Queens head needed permission to use it , and therefore validated as a genuine coin as opposed to others that bore ships or planes on both sides and memorabilia.

I like crown coins from Gibraltar and IOM and I assume from this discussion they have no face unless marked as such like e.g. a five pound coin.

PS he he is gimcrackery even a word.

I’m in a bit of a dilemma in this debate. On the one hand, I like crown coins and many are of the of the non circulating kind but I fully understand the non currency argument. A bit of a schizophrenic numismatist, I guess Ha.

Others here will know, but there are some lovely looking coins from Nightingale Island but I believe the island is uninhabited. This surely is the ultimate irony in this debate.

Charles