I've basically always believed that everybody here is a responsible adult here to share in a passion, and therefore moderation should be light touch and absolute last resort.
However lately the forum has seemed to be breaking out into some sort of tribal war, adding nothing of value to the forum and creating more mess than my puppy. I've found myself having to delete a couple of posts which have added no value.
We all know the offenders, no need to name names. Most have been told to calm down and behave before, yet things seem to be getting worse.
So as members, do you have any comments? What do you want to see? More bans? More off topic deletions? Status Quo? You tell me.
Anything that breaks forum policy should be deleted.
The one that seems to be constantly broken at the moment is:
"Respect the members of the site by avoiding derogatory and upsetting messages, as well as non-constructive criticism. Be polite and courteous."
We're supposed to be adults and shouldn't have to be told this, but if some members want to act like children then they should be treated like children and sent to their rooms for a timeout until they can learn to play nicely.
Monitoring the Forum is a delicate position to be in. I really think it should be an anonymous position, known only to other admin. That would eliminate alot of animosity toward moderators, and favoritism would be minimal. Yet he would still be held accountable.
I think Xavier covered the most prevalent offenses in the Forum Guidelines. Any violations should be deleted, tell them to take it to P.M.And if questionable, 1 or 2 others from the admin , along with the moderator, could decide.
When I think of the Forum, I like to compare it to countries relationships with each other in the real world. Problems arise out of misinterpretations of words, governments , and some just dont like some countries.
Moderators have done a pretty good job for having a thankless position.
Using the guidelines is the best way. Best judgement and thought is the only defense.Just my thoughts.
I look forward to other members ideas.
More off topic deletions (as has been done for some posts recently) sounds like the way to go, as this is usually the manner in which threads are derailed by Hamster & Cie.
I'm not going to deny that some of my own posts fit the crime above, but in the future, any such posts (by anyone, incl. me) that are preemptively deleted would serve to prevent some of our more strongly/differently opinionated members from taking offence, and ruining their day.
Either way, I wish a happy 2018 for all the Numista Community!
I agree. When you sign up on this site you agree to adhere to the rules of the site. If you can't, or refuse to, follow them then don't post in the forums. If you feel like posting something that's off-topic in the thread you're posting it in, start a new thread. And stop calling out specific members on things, for goodness sake. I've seen it a few times this year and it's just silly.
I think posts that break the rules should be edited (and marked as such of course) or deleted, as called for. Offenders should be issued appropriate warnings.
As for the conflicts that involve mixups in wording or culture, I think we should be left to sort those out ourselves until it's obvious that we can't sort it out between us. I can't say I've ever seen a case like that where it wasn't cleared up within a couple of posts though.
I think deleting all or parts of member's posts that are personaly antaginistic toward other members is perfectly acceptable, and should be done. I think that would fix most of our problems. Also, temporary bans for certain members (under my rules, delete this sentence) would fix about 99% of the rest of the problems.
Citeer: "nthn"I think deleting all or parts of member's posts that are personally antagonistic toward other members is perfectly acceptable, and should be done.
I demand a answer for why no sanctions for trying to ruin the hamster guessing game were taken. Even in the happy announcement of the winners the bitterly french grandma did not stfu but started to mock participants useing foul language. Many others congratulated the winners but some where to envious so they try to destroy it posting random crap.
Once upon a time, there was a bad, bad man on Numista who claimed views contrary to his perverse narrative of history were 'Western propaganda'. His butthurt was such that he felt the need to challenge the comp
I answer on my personal behalf, not as a moderator myself.
I assess that we are all grownups. Therefore, we are supposed to behave as such, not as naughty boys/girls.
Beside, as adults, we are used to deal with rude persons (kids, sales persons and clients, bosses and staff, shareholders and the rest of the world); therefore, we are able to consider bullshit as bullshit and not as personal offence.
Furthermore, we are all responsible and clever enough to know when we do not comply with the policy or titillate other members with proper nonsense / bullshit. We should not in such cases be upset or surprised being "moderated".
Consequently, I consider as normal to delete any non compliant post.
There is a basic life's rule inviting not to do to others what we wouldn't accept from them. It is not acceptable to answer unpolitely and without respect. It is perfectly acceptable to express a disagreement when occuring.
To be clear, writing "I disagree because..." is perfectly OK. Writing "you are an a---e because you say that" is not.....
Challenging other members opinion is nice, it adds new points of view and lead to progress. I regularly evolve and increase my numismatic skills thanks to argumented opposition and sledgehammer arguments. This is the reason why I am here and will stay here, notwithstanding disgracious inputs.
Citeer: "VieillePile"Morning fellows,
I answer on my personal behalf, not as a moderator myself.
I assess that we are all grownups. Therefore, we are supposed to behave as such, not as naughty boys/girls.
Beside, as adults, we are used to deal with rude persons (kids, sales persons and clients, bosses and staff, shareholders and the rest of the world); therefore, we are able to consider bullshit as bullshit and not as personal offence.
Furthermore, we are all responsible and clever enough to know when we do not comply with the policy or titillate other members with proper nonsense / bullshit. We should not in such cases be upset or surprised being "moderated".
Consequently, I consider as normal to delete any non compliant post.
There is a basic life's rule inviting not to do to others what we wouldn't accept from them. It is not acceptable to answer unpolitely and without respect. It is perfectly acceptable to express a disagreement when occuring.
To be clear, writing "I disagree because..." is perfectly OK. Writing "you are an a---e because you say that" is not.....
Challenging other members opinion is nice, it adds new points of view and lead to progress. I regularly evolve and increase my numismatic skills thanks to argumented opposition and sledgehammer arguments. This is the reason why I am here and will stay here, notwithstanding disgracious inputs.
And a happy new year to all ;-)
I spend most of my time on the Coin identifications & Swaps part of the forum since that's what I'm here for. Those two sections of the forum are moderated very well, the information found on them is helpful and usually on topic without any drama so I see no reason to change anything there.
I rarely visit the other parts of the forum but I don't really remember seeing something that would need any drastic actions, just delete posts (or parts of a post) that go over the top.
I collect and deal in ancient Roman coin. In case you're looking for affordable ancient coins or need any help with the coins you already have send me a message.
It is possible to be to delete happy here as well. I think it would be better served for documentation to freeze or lock a topic. I have had requests for additional information deleted at times. And some of the more brazen members here are routinely not edited or deleted. Our very own moderator curses in posts! I am of an age where I do not personally like to be censored. That is heavy handed and causes me free speech concerns. I can live with locking topics, and perhaps off topic deletions. Besides, if everything salacious is deleted or edited, then I have popped popcorn and settled in for no reason!
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
I'm against deleting 99% of the contents of the trashcan. If somebody makes an arse out of himself or herself then why spend your precious time cleaning it up? Leave it up there for the world to see and let the problem children suffer the consequences. Both the quality and civility of the forum have taken a steep nose dive over the past year or so. Clearly the "hands off" approach isn't working.
It's not at all coincidental that this decline occurred at exactly the same time as an alliance of misfits, lunatics and rude children began to coalesce. Real numismatists and adults are being driven away. Who wants to log in expecting to read something interesting about coin collecting or, in the case of the free discussion forum, the experiences and views of one's friends, just to see them shouted down by the perpetually offended. Or read topics like "I like round coinz best guyz!". The anti American bias of many posts is an ongoing disgrace.
It's not for me to solve however I will say that banning (again) The Hamster while allowing the HuffPo crowd to continue unchecked will solve nothing.
The Numista forum, until quite recently, was a great place to make contact with, and stay in touch with friends across the globe and credible, knowledgeable collectors. Sadly it's been hijacked by the mostly friendless and the largely ignorant.
When my wife comes home from work and asks me how my day was, I don't think my answer is going to be "Well darling, I spent the day arguing geopolitics with some children then wasted a few more hours defending Southern culture from some ignoramus who's entire experience of it was watching The Dukes of Hazzard."
If that's what the Numista forum is to become then maybe it's time for the adults to move to Coin Talk where this kind of nonsense would be shut down permanently within minutes.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
Good point Pnightingale. Hamster is quite the balance. I just don't always trust the moderators here. The application of censoring is so unbalanced. I agree that if it gets to the point of wanting it deleted then it should just be frozen. We have folks that wander the forums reprimanding users left and right. That is as obnoxious to me as deletions that pretty much render a thread unreadable. Your comments about anti American bias hit home as well. Who moderates the moderators? I can handle the attacks. But when one's defence towards an attack is censored, but the original attack stands uncensored, well...that is problematic.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
As a moderator, I would say that moderating is not a precise science; Most of the time, I do not read all posts. I just read the posts on which my attention is drawn. If necessary (or if a wish is expressed by a member who feels offended), I delete words, sentences but I do only delete as less as possible. It might then happen that the first "draw" remains while the response is deleted. Shit happens.
As a forum member, I do not understand why members exchange on issues that are not directely linked to the post itself. I sometime have the feeling being in the schoolyard. Boring. Nevertheless, if writers are keen on telling nonsense, making themselves ridiculous, why not, it is not my business. I just notice who is writing and do not read their prose further. Full stop.
We have here the opportunity to meet with fellow collectors from all over the world. Most of them are not from my country, my culture, my religion, or worst are not collectionning what I am ;-) And so what ? This is obvious that we are not identical, thanks God. We would all collect the same coins and prices would rocket !!!
I noticed that both pnightingale and oklahoman are US citizens, proud of it and shoot as soon as feeling aimed at. It is fine that you feel proud. I served more that 20 years (including with your forces). I have therefore the greatest understanding and respect for your point of views. talking about me, my country and my army: it happened in the past, including a recent one, that we shot and shelled some guys. They may feel some resentment. Who would not ? I might also myself have some resentment. So what? That's my business.
But since we are here to share about numismatics, that's fine. And by the way, 90% of the trashcan is made of spams ;-) (and misdirected posts)...
Citeer: "Oklahoman" Your comments about anti American bias hit home as well. Who moderates the moderators? I can handle the attacks. But when one's defence towards an attack is censored, but the original attack stands uncensored, well...that is problematic.
I dunno who you're referring to, but I've never noticed any anti-American bias on the part of the moderators?
No, sorry, I wasn't refering (neither Oklahoman, I think) to moderators but I recently deleted several posts (mentionned to me by members) aiming directly (or not) to the US or to Islam or to other countries and culture. And if I well remember, I just deleted the last posts which were "over the borderline", without deleting the first ones, which were just slightly innapropriate.
I have to admit that I sometimes felt myself offended when my own country is aimed but did not react (hearing bullshit from idiots is somewhere normal).
Citeer: "VieillePile"Hi Cass,
No, sorry, I wasn't refering (neither Oklahoman, I think) to moderators but I recently deleted several posts (mentionned to me by members) aiming directly (or not) to the US or to Islam or to other countries and culture. And if I well remember, I just deleted the last posts which were "over the borderline", without deleting the first ones, which were just slightly innapropriate.
I have to admit that I sometimes felt myself offended when my own country is aimed but did not react (hearing bullshit from idiots is somewhere normal).
Have a good evening,
vp
Oh, yes I remember those now. That was ugly.
I find it funny that when an opinion jives with someone's worldview, they call dissenters the 'perpetually offended', and yet when something they find disgraceful comes on the horizon, they buckle down and go on the defensive. It's an ouroboros of strife at the moment, no?
Citeer: "neilithicman"Anything that breaks forum policy should be deleted.
The one that seems to be constantly broken at the moment is:
"Respect the members of the site by avoiding derogatory and upsetting messages, as well as non-constructive criticism. Be polite and courteous."
We're supposed to be adults and shouldn't have to be told this, but if some members want to act like children then they should be treated like children and sent to their rooms for a timeout until they can learn to play nicely.
In addition to this I would like to add that you need to be unbiased as moderator and if forum guidelines are broken by both sides during an argument then both sides need to be dealt with evenly, you can't just delete the comments and ban the members you don't agree with.
No doubt Hamster has a lengthy ban (and a deserved one) coming his way, the comments he made belittling someone else's collection, calling them a "witch counting her washers" was WAY out of line, but then some pretty spiteful things were said to him in return.
Still there is no answer from the chiefadministrator why no actions was taken against those who made a big drama about my contest i set up for fun and to support the social cohession of this community.
They were clearly banned from participatiting and still went on for weeks trying to destroy and disrupt our enjoyment. It went so far that i even wanted to cancel the whole thing since i was really shocked from their rude behaviour and excessive language.
If my kids where browsing numista i would prohibit them doing so after reading all those foul words from these cyberbullies.
Furthermore i wanted to add, instead of gratulating the 2 winners like many others did they started to spray hate and misfortune in the winning anouncment thread. How low can one get?
I am really sorry to see you so troubled by this issue. I do not nevertheless think it has been directed against you. This is just that we do not all share the same sense of humor bzw. seriousness. The best is to stick to the most common acceptation (aka politically correct). I have been twice banned from national educational systems, I know what I am talking about.
Just for fun, let's take an exemple:
A german driver crosses the french border; The custom officer asks him several questions "citizenship ? German", "Origine ? Berlin", "Destination ? Paris", "Occupation ? No, just for holidays".
Some germans are offended because they feel it's reminding them the past and made them reliable for. Some other lough because it reminds them the good old times. The rest doesn't react.
While some frenchmen feel offended too, because it reminds them etc... Some other will find it funny, because its mocking the germans. The rest will not react;
ROW will laugh because it is funny and they are not involved.
The best is to keep these jokes for privileged circles.
The best I can advise, is that when you got some bad feeling from an answer to your post, just disregard and report. "See it, say it, sorted".
Citeer: "VieillePile"Hi Muenzhamster,
I am really sorry to see you so troubled by this issue. I do not nevertheless think it has been directed against you. This is just that we do not all share the same sense of humor bzw. seriousness. The best is to stick to the most common acceptation (aka politically correct). I have been twice banned from national educational systems, I know what I am talking about.
Just for fun, let's take an exemple:
A german driver crosses the french border; The custom officer asks him several questions "citizenship ? German", "Origine ? Berlin", "Destination ? Paris", "Occupation ? No, just for holidays".
Some germans are offended because they feel it's reminding them the past and made them reliable for. Some other lough because it reminds them the good old times. The rest doesn't react.
While some frenchmen feel offended too, because it reminds them etc... Some other will find it funny, because its mocking the germans. The rest will not react;
ROW will laugh because it is funny and they are not involved.
The best is to keep these jokes for privileged circles.
The best I can advise, is that when you got some bad feeling from an answer to your post, just disregard and report. "See it, say it, sorted".
And sorry again for the bad feelings,
vp
But... EU?
Anyways, to a certain degree, regulation must go on. However, this needs the victim's side of cooperation. While, as mentioned in VieillePile's case, one may feel offended, not react, or even laugh. The most important thing is how the person percepts the outcome of the event.
Citeer: "VieillePile"
A german driver crosses the french border; The custom officer asks him several questions "citizenship ? German", "Origine ? Berlin", "Destination ? Paris", "Occupation ? No, just for holidays".
I think you and I would get along just fine.
Just to keep the record straight, I'm not an American, at least not by birth. I'm an educated, high culture, 100% Euro. Descendant of Viking warlords and honorary Southern Gentleman.
Did you know that when entering the US, you are required to answer a long list of questions, among the funniest are "Do you intend to overthrow the US Government?" and my favorite, "Do you intend to commit acts of gross moral turpitude?". I sleep so much better knowing that our Government goes to such great lengths to protect me from evildoers and whatever turpitude might be.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
According to Brogan vs US case (fifth amendment jurisprudence), "Our legal system provides methods for challenging the Government's right to ask questions — lying is not one of them."
So, if you commits "acts of gross turpitude" after a negative answer to the famous list, you get an extra 5 years ;-)
Culture is a funny phenomenon .... In southern France (as in most of the romanic Europe), "lying orally" is not lying and will not be considered as such by a court. Only written materials are accepted as evidences. In northern Europe, a single witness may testify..... An other famous joke says " Your honour, that lawyer is lying" and the judge answering the lawyer wasn't lying but pleading.....
I have heard about the system in use in West Point. There are "paper cloks" on the doors of the sleeping rooms, to indicate where the students are if not there. There is a specific position showing "illegal absence". If you get caught, you are softly punished. But if you are caught having a beer downtown with your clock showing "library", you are just fired....
At least in the past there has been gang bullying, where four to five members has been picking on a lonely member. The result has often been the the lonely member has gotten a ban, and the bully team goes free of charge since they are considered too valuable for Numista. In other words, there seems to members here who can behave just as bad as they want since they somehow have immunity towards punishments. In my opinion this is very wrong and all members are of equal value. This also means that we'll need a brave team who also dares to challenge the valuable members and also punish them if they break the rules of the forum.
To delete posts is probably the easiest and best way to start when is comes to forum violations. Depending on the seriousness also warnings can be given to the member. Preferably warnings are handed out through PM, mostly to make it super clear who gets the warning, it's easier for the Team to track the warnings, and also because it's no one else's business who gets a warning.
Forum bans is a pretty harsh punishment and should only come in use when a member repeatedly are violating the rules, ignoring warnings from the Team, or the crime committed is of very serious matter (e.g. hate speech).
To lock forums could also be a good way to go if the thread itself is of no value and the comments repeatedly gets out of hand. There are too many spam threads in the forum already with its only purpose is to say "Hey, look at this stupid guy! LOL!" etc. Threads like these have no place on Numista and should all be deleted ASAP. Even, or especially, if they are X years old.
There are also marked members who in the past, and still, like to spam and troll in the forums. From what I've seen these are members are free passes and we can all, apparently, treat them worse than dog poop without fearing any punishments. Is this okay, or should everyone have a chance to redeem themselves? Or is there a "if you spam once you are outlawed and will be treated with no respect whatsoever and no one but you will get punished for it" rule?
