Oggy's grading and Valuation game - (based on MPCC)

Ok, the rules are simple. The prize will be a silver proof coin, possibly a WWF 1976-1978 series one, or something older. I may also include a runners up prize. (I want Neil to be able to participate, so there's also an alternative of a 1 Oz silver bullion round for the winner) - Not all MPCC coins will be added, but I'll try to get most of them in there.

Your task is as follows: Calculate a grade and real world value for each listed coin. For now, you only need to grade each coin. We'll do valuations next.

For grading: Please use INTERNATIONAL Grading and select from the following grades (and their subgrades): G, VG, F, VF, XF, Unc, BU
Eg: VF+ is ok, VF35 is not. AU is okay, AU55 isn't.

You can use the following chart as guidance.



For each correct coin (based on the aggregate grades and values determined by myself and another judge - recruiting, message me) you will be awarded one point.

The contest will run alongside MPCC and will include all coins that I list here. A leaderboard will be compiled, and the winner at the end takes the prize!

When I close a round, those coins will no longer be available to work on, and will be replaced by new coins, so don't be tardy. This contest is for active forum members and swappers.

1.

2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.

Reserved for leaderboard

Sounds fun! Not like I'll get close to winning...

Count me in, although I don't think I'll do too well...

Let's play!

Where will this be?

Citeer: "redsmithstudios"​Where will this be?

​Here, on this thread.

Sheldon or Descriptive?

Interesting. Sounds like a great learning experience!

Citeer: "pnightingale"​Sheldon or Descriptive?

​
Descriptive. Sheldon doesn't/shouldn't even work for non US coins.

I guess trying isn't too bad... I'm in.

Contest open - Have fun.

Assuming I'm doing it right:

1. XF
2. UNC
3. VF+
4. VF+
5. XF+
6. VF
7. XF
8. VF
9. XF+
10. VF
11. XF+
12. VF
13. XF
14. VF+
15. XF+
16. XF

1. UNC
2. AU
3. UNC
4. XF
5. XF
6. VF+
7. VF+
8. VF
9. VF+
10. XF
11. VF
12. XF
13. UNC
14. VF+
15. XF
16. XF

We'll do grading as part 1, and valuations as part 2 then as people have just submitted grades for now.

I'll add more about valuations later

1. UNC
2. AU
3. UNC
4. UNC
5. AU (cleaned)
6. XF
7. XF
8. VF
9. XF+
10. UNC
11. XF (cleaned)
12. AU
13. UNC
14. XF
15. AU
16. XF+

1. UNC
2. AU
3. BU
4. EF
5. AU
6. EF+
7. EF+
8. -VF
9. EF
10. -EF
11. AU
12 -EF
13. UNC
14. EF
15. EF
16. VF+

For clarity, BU should only be used for copper or bronze although it's been extended to every type of coin, even gold(!!).

Good luck everybody. I hope it doesn't turn into the usual embarassing pissing contest.

1. XF+
2. XF
3. UNC
4. XF+
5. XF
6. VF+
7. VF
8. F+
9. XF
10. UNC
11. XF
12. VF
13. UNC
14. UNC
15. XF
16. XF+

John

Nice game with opportunity to learn

1. UNC
2. XF-
3. XF
4. VF+
5. VF
6. XF
7. VF+
8. F+
9. XF
10. VF
11. XF
12. VF
13. UNC
14. VF
15. XF
16. VF+

1) UNC
2) AU
3) XF+
4) XF
5) XF-
6) VF
7) XF+
8) F
9) XF+
10) XF
11) XF+
12) XF-
13) AU+
14) XF
15) XF+
16) XF-

I guess we should try to grade as NGC do, instead of a "professional seller" ?
Pro usually tends to overgrade coins they sell... even the ones they buy sometimes

1) AU
2) VF+
3) AU
4) VF+
5) VF
6) XF
7) VF+
8) F+
9) XF
10) VF+
11) XF
12) VF+
13) AU
14) XF
15) VF+
16) XF-

It would be far more educational if you explained why you gave those grades.

Citeer: "Houseofham"​It would be far more educational if you explained why you gave those grades.

​Yes....

Apparently, I grade too high....
But then again, I don't see any wear on most of these where others have said XF, I would like to see their explanations like Houseofham suggests.

1 AU slight wear on his cheek
2 Unc has this been cleaned, look at the dark background around the top rim
3 Unc
4 Unc
5 AU, lots of bag marks
6 AU, Grainy photo but looks AU, some wear on the foreheads
7 EF with lots of bag marks
8 VF, could this be a cast fake, whats going on with the rim?
9 AU
10 Unc, Beautiful wood grain
11 Unc, cleaned with a polishing wheel.
12 Unc
13 Unc
14 Unc
15 Unc
16 Unc

Citeer: "Houseofham"​It would be far more educational if you explained why you gave those grades.

First, I thought the same but I think it will influence too much the following grades.

However, it would be great to have at least one day, between the end of the round and the results of the judges, to justify our choices (if we want) : during this period, any modifications of the grades we gave wouldn't be considered.

I can explain why I gave these grades but it would be only a personnal opinion based of what I see and, as a non-native English speaker, I must admit it's quite hard for me to write a full description of the elements who led me to them

I'm glad I opened this game, as it's started good discussion already.

There's a few points I'd like to bring up, which should help discussion/grading.

1. People tend to overgrade their own coins. So if somebody has a coin here, and has decided it's a VF, it's going to bump up all the other 'better' ones.

Conversely, if somebody owns none of the coins, they could be looking overly harshly.

2. Some of the photography is better than others. Whilst some of the pictures are very clear and provide a lot of scope for seeing all the details and flaws, others hide flaws.

3. Different metals are differently prone to things like bagmarks and scratches, and different lighting shows it up differently.

4. Different coins have different thresholds for what VF is. If you aren't familiar with a series, it's hard to grade it.

Here are 2 coins for you. Guess their grades. (Not part of a competition, just for fun)





ps. Apuking, I don't like the fields on that trade dollar at all. I'm not going to scream counterfeit from such small pics, but I don't trust it one bit.

1. UNC
2. XF
3. AU.
4. AU.
5. UNC.
6. XF
7. XF
8. VF
9. VF
10. VF
11. XF
12. XF+
13. UNC.
14. XF
15. XF+
16. XF

Hard to apply the grading guide to all coins, and compositions. Some countries minting processed are not as refined as others ,giving the appearances of wear etc., when its actually worn dies, weak strikes etc. Panama coins are known for black spotting straight out of the mint due to contamination. Takes a while to surface sometimes, so it goes from BU. to undesirable without even opening the package.

Great game Og.

Citeer: "oggy"​I'm glad I opened this game, as it's started good discussion already.
​
​There's a few points I'd like to bring up, which should help discussion/grading.
​
​1. People tend to overgrade their own coins. So if somebody has a coin here, and has decided it's a VF, it's going to bump up all the other 'better' ones.
​
​Conversely, if somebody owns none of the coins, they could be looking overly harshly.
​
​2. Some of the photography is better than others. Whilst some of the pictures are very clear and provide a lot of scope for seeing all the details and flaws, others hide flaws.
​
​3. Different metals are differently prone to things like bagmarks and scratches, and different lighting shows it up differently.
​
​4. Different coins have different thresholds for what VF is. If you aren't familiar with a series, it's hard to grade it.
​
​Here are 2 coins for you. Guess their grades. (Not part of a competition, just for fun)
​
​
​
​
​
​ps. Apuking, I don't like the fields on that trade dollar at all. I'm not going to scream counterfeit from such small pics, but I don't trust it one bit.

​#1. VG-F-
#2. G

Hi there,
I am there as well.

1.UNC
2.XF+
3.XF+
4.VF+
5.UNC
6.VF+
7.F-
8.F+
9.VF+
10.VF-
11.VF-
12.UNC
13.XF+
14.VF+
15.VF-

Citeer: "oggy"​I'm glad I opened this game, as it's started good discussion already.
​
​There's a few points I'd like to bring up, which should help discussion/grading.
​
​1. People tend to overgrade their own coins. So if somebody has a coin here, and has decided it's a VF, it's going to bump up all the other 'better' ones.
​
​Conversely, if somebody owns none of the coins, they could be looking overly harshly.
​
​2. Some of the photography is better than others. Whilst some of the pictures are very clear and provide a lot of scope for seeing all the details and flaws, others hide flaws.
​
​3. Different metals are differently prone to things like bagmarks and scratches, and different lighting shows it up differently.
​
​4. Different coins have different thresholds for what VF is. If you aren't familiar with a series, it's hard to grade it.
​
​Here are 2 coins for you. Guess their grades. (Not part of a competition, just for fun)
​
​
​
​
​
​ps. Apuking, I don't like the fields on that trade dollar at all. I'm not going to scream counterfeit from such small pics, but I don't trust it one bit.

F+ & Fair

Yeah, life exists in grades below G!​

Citeer: "Houseofham"​It would be far more educational if you explained why you gave those grades.

​i would love to see an explanation for the grades AFTER the contest is done. Otherwise, as redsmithstudios et al point out, it would influence entries...

Regardless, I just want to get better at grading. All of us have different levels of experience and love certain coins over others, but in this contest, we are all grading the same coins based on the same photos, so...

Citeer: "​1. AU"

​

1. UNC
2. XF+
3. AUNC
4. XF
5. XF
6. VF+
7. VF+
8. VF
9. XF
10. VF+
11. XF-
12. XF-
13. XF+
14. VF+
15. XF+
16. XF-

Probably completely wrong but here's what I'd write them down as if they were in my collection:

1. UNC
2. VF+
3. UNC
4. VF+
5. XF
6. XF-
7. VF+
8. F+
9. XF
10. XF
11. aUNC
12. VF+
13. XF
14. XF
15. VF+
16. XF

Disclaimer: it is very hard to grade coins accurately without examining the actual coin (I'd call it "holding in hands"). So, based solely on the pictures here is what I've come with:

1. Unc
2. AU
3. Unc
4. XF
5. AU (hairline scratches)
6. VF+
7. XF-
8. VF-
9. XF
10. XF
11. AU
12. XF-
13. Unc
14. XF-
15. XF-
16. AU

No1 BU
NO2 VF+
NO3 AU
NO4 UNC
No5 UNC
No6 VF
No7 VF
No8 F
No9 BU
No10 XF
No11 UNC
No12 VF
No13 UNC
No14 AU
No15 XF
No16 XF

Hm... I was thinking:

1) UNC.
2) UNC.
3) AU.
4) AU.
5) EF.
6) VF.
7) EF.
8) F.
9) EF.
10) AU+.
11) EF.
12) AU.
13) UNC.
14) VF.
15) AU.
16) AU.

So could an admin lock a thread when no more posts are accepted?

Citeer: "oggy"​
​Here are 2 coins for you. Guess their grades. (Not part of a competition, just for fun)
​
​
​
​
​
​ps. Apuking, I don't like the fields on that trade dollar at all. I'm not going to scream counterfeit from such small pics, but I don't trust it one bit.

​
I think I will go for a VF- for the farthing, but I hesitate with a F+.
The coin has clearly circulated : few details are missing on the observe but the bust kept a good relief, the reverse side suffered a bit more as Britannia lost most of the drape, most of the denticles disappeared, lot of shocks...
However we must keep in mind that the diameter of the coin is only 22mm : if we reduce these pictures at the size of the coin, we notice that the coin is still appealing and most of theses damages doesn't alter its aspect.

In short, the coin is closer of a VF than a F for me, but not enough details remain for that grade.

The other coin seems to be a 4 quarto from the Philippines.
Parts of the lettering are lost and we can barely see the outlines of the lion on the observe.
The reverse side looks a bit better as the crown kept few details and the elements of the shields are still clearly visible... The coin is very deteriorated, we can see it with the naked eye : plenty of little shocks on the surface and few big shocks on the edge. The coin had a long circulation and is not really appealing.
The coin is still identifiable, but the date is missing... so I would say FR for the grade.

Citeer: "oggy"​I'm glad I opened this game, as it's started good discussion already.
​
​There's a few points I'd like to bring up, which should help discussion/grading.
​
​1. People tend to overgrade their own coins. So if somebody has a coin here, and has decided it's a VF, it's going to bump up all the other 'better' ones.
​
​Conversely, if somebody owns none of the coins, they could be looking overly harshly.
​
​2. Some of the photography is better than others. Whilst some of the pictures are very clear and provide a lot of scope for seeing all the details and flaws, others hide flaws.
​
​3. Different metals are differently prone to things like bagmarks and scratches, and different lighting shows it up differently.
​
​4. Different coins have different thresholds for what VF is. If you aren't familiar with a series, it's hard to grade it.
​
​Here are 2 coins for you. Guess their grades. (Not part of a competition, just for fun)
​
​
​
​
​
​ps. Apuking, I don't like the fields on that trade dollar at all. I'm not going to scream counterfeit from such small pics, but I don't trust it one bit.

​1 The British coin is F+
2 The Spanish one is -F

Cycnos was very close with the farthing.

Both coins have a story, which is why I posted those ones specifically.

The farthing is VF (Well both heritage and DNW graded it VF at least when selling) - They had a notoriously weak reverse strike, so grading is done on the obverse and lettering for the most part.

The other is indeed an 1835 4 quartos from the Phillipines - The story behind this one is interesting; although marked as Manilla mint, there was no Manilla mint at the time, and as such it was subcontracted to Chinese private minters, who were not as good at making coins back in 1835 as they are at making counterfeits now They were so badly made, that when a hoard of 40 or so with full lustre were discovered, the date was not legible on any of them. As such it's PROBABLY a VG-G in my eyes (though I'm far from an expert on that series or indeed that part of the world or chinese private minting practices in the early 19th century)


The point was more to start a discussion on grading, and show that without knowing the stories, it's often hard to be accurate.

To my opinion.
1. AU
2. XF
3. AU may be even UNC (MS61)
4. XF
5. XF
6. VF
7. VF
8. F
9. VF
10. F cleaned
11. VF+
12. XF
13. UNC
14. VF+
15. VF+ (reverse) obverse is XF+
16. XF-

Citeer: "oggy"​Cycnos was very close with the farthing.
​
​Both coins have a story, which is why I posted those ones specifically.
​
​The farthing is VF (Well both heritage and DNW graded it VF at least when selling) - They had a notoriously weak reverse strike, so grading is done on the obverse and lettering for the most part.
​
​The other is indeed an 1835 4 quartos from the Phillipines - The story behind this one is interesting; although marked as Manilla mint, there was no Manilla mint at the time, and as such it was subcontracted to Chinese private minters, who were not as good at making coins back in 1835 as they are at making counterfeits now They were so badly made, that when a hoard of 40 or so with full lustre were discovered, the date was not legible on any of them. As such it's PROBABLY a VG-G in my eyes (though I'm far from an expert on that series or indeed that part of the world or chinese private minting practices in the early 19th century)
​
​
​The point was more to start a discussion on grading, and show that without knowing the stories, it's often hard to be accurate.

Obviously, grading is not an easy task when we don't know all the information about a coin, thanks for this lesson
I didn't know about the 4 quartos story, indeed it was a trap and I must admit I'm not competent to grade this one.

Regarding the observe of the farthing only, it's indeed a VF.
I always struggle to see the difference between a weak strike and wear : if you have some tips, I'm interested !

When is the end of the first round?