India - republic or British?

Hi,

I don't profess to much knowledge of how this works, but this coin

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces8684.html

is listed under "India - Republic", but the currency type is "Rupee (1862-1957) (India - British)". Is this discrepancy ok? Or not actually a discrepancy?

Thanks!

Never noticed it before but you are correct - there probably needs to be a currency type for "India Republic 1950-1956" (post British, pre decimal). I only see 7 coins in this group

Thanks.

Probably a similar question: this Guernsey 10p

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces5635.html

was first minted in 1968, but the decimal pound came in in 1971, according to the currency description. Is this a different issue - was it just minted early but not 'released' until decimalisation?

 Pre-decimal coins stopped production in 1967. They still circulated 1968 1969 1970 1971 though no new ones were made (except a one-off special 1970 set from Royal Mint for UK). The only two coins from before 1971 that would have a direct decimal equivalent were one shilling and two shillings - which became five and ten new pence respectively. No 2.5p coins were issued to replace 6d though.
  In 1971 the rest of the decimal coins (1/2p 1p 2p) were issued. At one time there were dual price markings on items in shops (for a few years) when customers could pay in either coinage. Decimalisation proper began on 15th February 1971. The four years were neither the old system nor the new one; but the 1968 Guernsey coin above is in the correct section.
 
The dates for England (and Guernsey etc) are ...

• 1956 Last 1/4d (farthing) issued
  

• 1960 Demonetised 1/4d
  

• 1965 Last 5/- (crown or five shillings issued - Churchill commemorative)
  

• 1966 Last shilling issued
  

• 1967 Last circulation pre-decimal coins issued - 1/2d 1d 3d 6d 2/- 2/6
  

• 1968 First New Pence coins issued, the 5p and 10p
  

• 1969 The 50p introduced to replace 10 shilling note
  

• 1969 Demonetised 1/2d and 2/6 (half-crown)
  

• 1970 Demonetised 10/- note
  

• 1971 Introduction of 1/2p and 1p and 2p
  

• 1971 Demonetised 1d and 3d (and maybe 5/-)
  

• 1980 Demonetised 6d
  

• 1982 The word New is dropped from coinage
  

• 1982 Introduction of 20p
  

• 1983 Introduction of £1 coin
  

• 1988 Demonetised £1 note
  

• 1990 Demonetised 1/- (shilling)
  

• 1993 Demonetised 2/- (two shillings or florin)
  

... and so on. Other dates and details omitted - just the main ones listed above. Not sure when the demonetised date was for 5/- (crown) coins (decimal value 25p). Some Scottish dates are different.
 Bit of a jumbled reply, but I think all above is right.  

Very good and comprehensive reply ZacUK, but I have to pull you up on one small detail - the word "New" was dropped from UK decimal coinage in 1982.

 You are correct - and I have amended. I remember 1982 now as it was the next year that the 1983 two pence in some sets were worded (in error) with the old New Pence instead of Two Pence.
 The book I got 1980 from has got it wrong then ...

Yes, thanks Zac! The depth of knowledge is astounding...

Do you know anything about the India bit at the top of this thread?

Citeer: alastorDo you know anything about the India bit at the top of this thread?

Yeah...come on answer that Zac!  No...I'm kidding the thread in its original form and what you made it are both interesting.

 I know that in UK the wording on the 1948 farthing coins was ...
GEORGIVS VI D:G:BR:OMN:REX F:D:IND:IMP.
  Then in 1949 it changed to ...
GEORGIVS VI D:G:BR:OMN:REX FIDEI DEF.
so IND:IMP. was dropped.
The coin at the start of this topic is  Year  1950-1956
so it does belong to the section  India - Republic
as it already is, just the wrong currency was selected when the page was created, I guess.
  Maybe it would be easier if currency selection was automatic - as the country has been selected near the top of the page, and the date entered at the end of the page, so maybe a system can be made to choose the right one for us. I already mentioned in a different topic today where a currency had not been selected, so it would help. Though next month Numista has been going just fine for 10 years, without such a system, so maybe not needed !    

It's easy enough to create a currency type for "India Republic coins 1950 - 1956" (currently there isn't one, that I could find) and reclassify the 7 coins that belong to that category.
The larger problem is the India British coins that have been classified under "India British 1862 - 1957" those would have to be reclassified as "India British 1862-1947".

India regained it's Independence in 1947, no India British coins exist for 1948 - 1957!
To my knowledge, no coins (for circulation) with date year 1948 or 1949 were minted (there were patterns). The first coins for the New Republic of India (formed in 1950) were minted in 1950 which continued till 1956 (7 types, Rupees & Annas) and then the decimal system coinage (Rupees & Paise) was introduced in 1957 and still continues.

There are over a 100 coins that have to be reclassified as "India British 1862-1947". I do not know enough about databases and such but a simplistic solution would be to  "search and replace" from "India British 1862-1957" to "India British 1862-1947". That or create a new "India British 1862-1947" category and do everyone of them manually as a change request.

Would it not simply be a case of changing the category name? This would change all existing (correct) India - British ones to the new dates 1862-1947. Then the seven types you mentioned could be manually adjusted to this new 1950-56 category.

Or have I misunderstood?

That might be the solution...I'm sure Xavier knows exactly how to fix this

Another seemingly mismatched coin:

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces2358.html

According to the currency name, the Qatari riyal started in 1973, but this page gives mintages in 1967 and 1969 as well. According to wikipedia(!), 1973 is the correct start date for the new riyal. This page also gives 1973 as the first start date: http://www.chiefacoins.com/Database/Countries/Qatar.htm.

Can someone remove the 1960s years from the coin? It's the only one of the series that's wrong.

Thanks.

Citeer: ZacUKPre-decimal coins stopped production in 1967. They still circulated 1968 1969 1970 1971 though no new ones were made (except a one-off special 1970 set from Royal Mint for UK). The only two coins from before 1971 that would have a direct decimal equivalent were one shilling and two shillings - which became five and ten new pence respectively. No 2.5p coins were issued to replace 6d though.
  In 1971 the rest of the decimal coins (1/2p 1p 2p) were issued. At one time there were dual price markings on items in shops (for a few years) when customers could pay in either coinage. Decimalisation proper began on 15th February 1971. The four years were neither the old system nor the new one; but the 1968 Guernsey coin above is in the correct section.
 
The dates for England (and Guernsey etc) are ...

• 1956 Last 1/4d (farthing) issued
  

• 1960 Demonetised 1/4d
  

• 1965 Last 5/- (crown or five shillings issued - Churchill commemorative)
  

• 1966 Last shilling issued
  

• 1967 Last circulation pre-decimal coins issued - 1/2d 1d 3d 6d 2/- 2/6
  

• 1968 First New Pence coins issued, the 5p and 10p
  

• 1969 The 50p introduced to replace 10 shilling note
  

• 1969 Demonetised 1/2d and 2/6 (half-crown)
  

• 1970 Demonetised 10/- note
  

• 1971 Introduction of 1/2p and 1p and 2p
  

• 1971 Demonetised 1d and 3d (and maybe 5/-)
  

• 1980 Demonetised 6d
  

• 1982 The word New is dropped from coinage
  

• 1982 Introduction of 20p
  

• 1983 Introduction of £1 coin
  

• 1988 Demonetised £1 note
  

• 1990 Demonetised 1/- (shilling)
  

• 1993 Demonetised 2/- (two shillings or florin)
  

... and so on. Other dates and details omitted - just the main ones listed above. Not sure when the demonetised date was for 5/- (crown) coins (decimal value 25p). Some Scottish dates are different.
 Bit of a jumbled reply, but I think all above is right.  

Hi there, from my knowledge the Crown/25p was not truely demonetized until 1990 when it was replace with the £5 coin.

I think you will find that 25p coins have not been demonetized and are still legal tender.

Citeer: radrick007I think you will find that 25p coins have not been demonetized and are still legal tender.

So i take it i can bank the 1977 silver jubilee crown?

Citeer: tony_k_1965

Citeer: radrick007I think you will find that 25p coins have not been demonetized and are still legal tender.

So i take it i can bank the 1977 silver jubilee crown?

This goes back to the age-old debate of legal tender vs. circulation coinage. I quote "Legal tender has a very narrow and technical meaning in the settlement of debts. It means that a debtor cannot successfully be sued for non-payment if he pays into court in legal tender. It does not mean that any ordinary transaction has to take place in legal tender or only within the amount denominated by the legislation. Both parties to a transaction are free to agree to accept any form of payment whether legal tender or otherwise according to their wishes. In order to comply with the very strict rules governing an actual legal tender transaction it is necessary, for example, to offer the exact amount due because no change can be demanded". In practice, you may find that some banks will accept them and others won't, likewise with Post Offices. You will probably have more success paying them into an account or paying for goods with them than trying to convert them into cash.

Hi,

Just bringing this back because the original topic was never dealt with! Does Xavier know what to do with this?

Hello,
I'm not sure whether there were a currency change in the years 1947-1950. As far as I know, except for the design of the coins and the shape of the 1 pice coin, there were no major change in the currency in India until 1957.
However, what I would like to know is whether British coins were still legal tender until 1957. I didn't find any information about the withdrawal of these coins. Perhaps some Indian members of Numista can answer this question.

I am not an expert on this but even though British coins were used after Independence in the transitional period between 1948 -1949, there are no coins with those dates. There were patterns with dates of 1949 for the new Republic of India
In 1950 the new Republic issued it's own coins which continued to be used till 1956.
The decimal system was introduced in 1957 which continues to date
There is more detail here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Indian_coins

British coins were indeed used in the transitional period until 1950, when the first coins of the Republic of India were issued. But what happened exactly in 1950? You could used the new Republican coins, but could you also use the old British coins?

In France for instance, we used only franc coins until 2001-12-31. Then, between 2002-01-01 and 2002-01-17, we could use both euro and franc coins. Only from 2002-02-18 we could not use francs anymore and we had to use euros exclusively. Were there also a two-currency period in India?

This from the Reserve Bank of India's website
http://www.rbi.org.in/currency/museum/c-rep.html

Looks like British issued currency was used only till 1949 for 2 years after independence in 1947. Mind you there are no British coins dated 1948 0r 1949  even though the money was legal tender.

I guess for purposes of the catalog
British India Rupee - 1862 till 1947 (There are no British coins dated after 1947 - so no purpose in including '49 or '50)
India Republic Rupee - 1949 to 1956 (pre decimal ; those issued in 1949 were patterns ; only 7 types of coins 1950 - 1956 were business strikes)
India Republic Rupee= 1957 - to present (decimal system)

Hello,
I've made the modifications.

Thank you Sir!

Brilliant, thanks Xavier.