Lucca 1808 5 Franchi, KM# 24.3 or 24.4? [opgelost]

This Lucca 5 Franchi of 1808 was sold as "Buste Moyen" (Medium Bust) but the two types in Krause that have this bust, KM#s 24.3 and 24.4 look identical. Does anyone know which my coin is and what the difference is? I'm sure I must be missing something here.

This is not a type of coin I have ever dealt with, but...

The two pictures used in Krause look so identical to each other, I am pretty sure they are the same coin. They have the same grime-dot to the left of the person's hair-bun, the same line under the SA in ELISA, and the same shine above the second C in LUCCA.

Your coin, however, looks different from the coin in Krause. Look at the end of Elisa's bust. In Krause, Felix's bust touches the end; on yours, the end is not touching anything. That being said, whatever type is actually being shown in Krause, I would think yours to be of the other.

The pictures on NGC are actually of different coins, if you would like to compare those:
https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/italian-states-lucca-5-franchi-km-24.3-1805-1808-7-cuid-1174373-duid-1598035
https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/italian-states-lucca-5-franchi-km-24.4-1808-cuid-1209474-duid-1579955

Now, do you recognize the pictures used for KM#24.4? Same ones as Krause. And that very same coin is used again on this KM#24.3 page:
https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/italian-states-lucca-5-franchi-km-24.3-1805-1808-7-cuid-1174373-duid-1581256

While NGC might not help much, at least we now have pictures of the different busts.

For the first two links, I think the pictures are switched around. Here is an example of a coin from 1807, whose date should only come in KM#24.3:
https://www.cgbfr.com/italie-lucques-et-piombino-5-franchi-elise-et-felix-baciocchi-1807-florence-tb-,fwo_399639,a.html

With that in mind, I would think your coin is a KM#24.4 type. But of course, corrections are always welcomed!

The busts on your coin are smaller than on the Krause pictures, which are the same for the bot references
Look at the scratch right of the 5
Here is the Numista:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces17810.html
The busts are even smaller.

https://www.coinshome.net/en/coin_definition-5_Franchi_5_Franc-Silver-Italian_city_states-wE0KbzbiVqwAAAFMvT1RkqFO.htm
https://www.coinshome.net/en/coin-5_Franchi_5_Franc-Silver-Italian_city_states-mj0KbzbixHkAAAFMk9qUgpJ4.htm

Yours seems to be overstruck on another coin...
Strange thing.

@Sulfur Analytical and precise to a tee as always, thank you! I did think the two coins looked very identical, and I spent 10 minutes squinting at them until I gave up. I've listed the coin as KM#24.4 for now.

@Petrus
I did check the Numista listing, but the problem is that Numista lumps all 4 subtypes (there is also KM#24.1 and 24.2) into one page, I just ruled out those because of lack of similarity on bust bottom. I'm pretty sure the coin depicted on Numista is one of those two with the smaller bust instead (compared to Krause pictures of the other two, or to my coin).

What makes you think it might be struck on another coin, and do you know if there is any evidence for this type being struck on other coins?

Also, can someone comment on (what seems to be a die crack on) the E of "ELISA"?

I can not make it out if it is damage, die crack, or something else
That is why I like to think it is a used flan...

Ok, thank you for your help!

Hi,

sur le catalogue français, il y a la photo de 3 types différent

https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces17810.html

Citeer: "fidji"​Hi,
​
​sur le catalogue français, il y a la photo de 3 types différent
​
​https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces17810.html

​Merci bien, mais non.... il y a rien dans cette photo pour expliquer la difference entre les deux (KM#24.3 et 23.4).

Look at the third coin in that link.
It has the same defects
Compare the details, busts hair, crown...
This is 24.1, not yours....
https://www.ma-shops.nl/emporium/item.php?id=22601&lang=nl

Perhaps you should try Davenport or Pagani
https://www.ma-shops.nl/mueller/item.php?id=25822&lang=nl
https://www.ma-shops.nl/shops/search.php?searchstr=Italien-Lucca+%2526+Piombino+5+Franchi+1805

Here is one with the same defects as your coin, so they are definitively die breaks
https://www.ma-shops.nl/hanseaten/item.php?id=180620003&lang=nl