Greetings, my name is Eric and I am interested in some feedback on this coin before I send it for grading. The weight and diameter are correct (26.7g and 39mm). It does not attract a magnet with any noticeable strength. It was purchased from a semi respectable auction house. Any pros out there care to add an opinion? Thanks in advance for any help. More photos can be taken if necessary. -Eric
I'm fairly certain it's authentic as it matches visually with genuine coins. Also, the weight is dead on, so if its fake, it is VERY good. I have read every piece of info I can find on these and there doesn't seem to be a production run of forgeries that match this coin so that is a good sign. Also, I haven't come across any "deal breaker" aspects yet so we'll see.
I will be sending it off and hoping for a decent grade. I don't see any surface hairlines, so it should be gradable.
I agree, the obvious flaws of forgeries are not there and if it is fake it is an extremely good one which I very much doubt. The mustache, the ear, the flag etc. are all just like the genuine. Great find and I hope you got it for a great price.
Thanks, you may have just saved me $100 on grading. Can you please expand on that? For example what tips you off? The only questionable thing I saw is weak strike details, and the reeds are little to crisp for the "wear" shown on the faces.
Citeer: "KLiao"Its looks real unless a extremely good fake
Thank you, that's what I thought, but another member seems to think replica. Are there any experts that can chime in and say what it is that looks off? The numbers are all spot on and the alloy has the right look.
Don't be. We have already established that there are plenty of fakes out there and have scrutinized yours with explanations. Why does this member state matter of factly that yours is fake without explanation, nobody knows. Perhaps others will chime in with an explanation as to why your may be a replica.
Citeer: "harryg"Don't be. We have already established that there are plenty of fakes out there and have scrutinized yours with explanations. Why does this member state matter of factly that yours is fake without explanation, nobody knows. Perhaps others will chime in with an explanation as to why your may be a replica.
True, the link he/she provided shows a link to the coin specs, which I already verified as correct. The texture and surface of the metal matches exactly with many of the coins on the NGC recently auctions coins. I guess fakes are getting so good they are almost impossible to tell even for professionals. Hopefully I can get a somewhat definitive answer as $80 is a little high to waste on a "junk coin".
Lets see if I can pull a few more members in on this conversation.
Citeer: "loruca"Seems fine to me at first sight.
Don't know what @petrus saw in it. Also, who is it graded by? I see it's in a slab?
The details are to crude to be correct.
The value of a real one is very high.
On the sails, I think I say it is silver plated https://coinquest.com/cgi-bin/cq/coins.pl?coin=19508
All the, and the experience I have with these, makes a say it is a replica/copy/forgery
These are very common and mostly very good
Citeer: "loruca"Seems fine to me at first sight.
Don't know what @petrus saw in it. Also, who is it graded by? I see it's in a slab?
That's part of the questionable part. It was in a cheap self slabber. That, in combination with what @petrus says has me second guessing. See my response to him below.
Before i comment, I have no experience in these coins
But looks real to me. But when i compare with coin quest the details, my alarm bells went off.
Without looking at coin quest i tot is real because
colour looks ok.
Rim is ok.
Details looks ok.
Until i compare the sails. I notice the fine prints on the sails are very different from what i see. Yours if i say is a weak strike, its not even a weak strike. If its a wear, it did not wear off evenly. You can try send for grading. If it is graded, maybe you will have a good laugh. Why do i say that? I visited some coin dealers, they were saying what do Americans know about Chinese coins? I was like...... speechless. To me is 50/50
In the beginning, when china replicate these fakes with wrong diameter and weight, i was not so angry about it. Because some people just wanted a replica. When in the later part they produce almost 100 identical, that is the where all the problem started. Even Rolex these days have AAA grades that look 100 percent alike and movement is also 100 percent alike until one disassemble it.
But really there are too many of these fake coins out there. So much until not even some people can really authenticate it. Only the masters that replicate it can identify it.
Be kind to people. Sharing is Caring. Collect what you like and not by the Crowd.
To seek for perfection, it is too painful and there is a very high price to pay. To seek for something comfortable is more easy. To seek for nothing is even more easy.
CiteerThe details are to crude to be correct.The value of a real one is very high.
On the sails, I think I say it is silver plated
https://coinquest.com/cgi-bin/cq/coins.pl?coin=19508
All the, and the experience I have with these, makes a say it is a replica/copy/forgery
These are very common and mostly very good
Did you try some silver tests?
http://www.silvercoins.com/fake-silver-coins-14-ways-to-spot-counterfeits/
I hope it is real, then it is a good find!
The provenance looks ok to I think
Perhaps I am surrounded to much with forgeries that I see fakes evrywhere
Ok, first off thank you for lending your expertise. I am willing to believe you that this is not authentic. However, I would like to add the reasons I was so confused.
Pros:
1. The details are weak, but match well with some NGC graded examples on their site. Even behind the ear, I found a few with an identical weak strike/depth of details. The boat details are questionable, but again I saw a few with a similar lack of depth. The sails and rope lines are correct and I do not see what you mean about silver plated. The semi pitted look of the metal can be found on other examples and I see no signs of plating. The reeding is sharp, straight and crisp, with minor wear.
2. When I search "counterfeit birds over junk ETC" I see not a single post of a fake of this caliber. I'm not sure what you mean about there being many examples of good fakes. I see plenty of obvious fakes, but non that are this questionable.
3. Between this site and a chinese coin forum I am on, I have not had a single person say "yes, I have bought that exact replica", which is odd.
4. Weight, dimensions, rim, and reeding all look good.
Cons:
1. It's true that the details of the boat are not crisp like a well struck known example. The obverse is pretty good though. I'm torn on this one.
2. It came in a self locking slab known to hold replicas. Again, this is not good.
3. The obverse hair details are not as crisp as they should be, but are a match for the original.
Citeer: "Saber82"Before i comment, I have no experience in these coins
But looks real to me. But when i compare with coin quest the details, my alarm bells went off.
Without looking at coin quest i tot is real because
colour looks ok.
Rim is ok.
Details looks ok.
Until i compare the sails. I notice the fine prints on the sails are very different from what i see. Yours if i say is a weak strike, its not even a weak strike. If its a wear, it did not wear off evenly. You can try send for grading. If it is graded, maybe you will have a good laugh. Why do i say that? I visited some coin dealers, they were saying what do Americans know about Chinese coins? I was like...... speechless. To me is 50/50
In the beginning, when china replicate these fakes with wrong diameter and weight, i was not so angry about it. Because some people just wanted a replica. When in the later part they produce almost 100 identical, that is the where all the problem started. Even Rolex these days have AAA grades that look 100 percent alike and movement is also 100 percent alike until one disassemble it.
But really there are too many of these fake coins out there. So much until not even some people can really authenticate it. Only the masters that replicate it can identify it.
It think you have a good point. The two areas I don't like are the sails, the collar of the obverse, and the further perspective details of the boat. What throws me off, is that there many genuine slabbed coins that show the same weak details. This is a tough one.
Status gewijzigd naar Opgelost(Eh365038, 28-mar-2019, 19:28)
So it turns out it is not authentic, I was able to find the exact same coin coming out of a DIFFERENT auction house based in Australia. I found this out 3 hours after sending mine to be graded like a fool. So, just a public service announcement..... Australia is pumping out fake coins, so be wary of any auction houses based there.
If you have any sympathy for me please flood their Yelp and Facebook pages with appropriate reviews. Provided here. Thanks again for the input, and beware.
Citeer: "Eh365038"
So it turns out it is not authentic, I was able to find the exact same coin coming out of a DIFFERENT auction house based in Australia. I found this out 3 hours after sending mine to be graded like a fool. So, just a public service announcement..... Australia is pumping out fake coins, so be wary of any auction houses based there.
To be fair, they do state that it may possibly be a fake "Bright, possibly a modern copy with minor surface marks"
Some of the really good fakes that are done in silver can be very hard to tell, even for experts. A batch of Morgan dollar fakes coming out of Chine a couple of years ago managed to pass the scrutiny of many US coin dealers.
I am more intrested in the coin grading results. Like I say some coin dealers I deal with are saying what do Americans know about Chinese coins? If it is really graded, then you can laugh about it. It is very unfortunate that I am a Chinese myself saying that China is just spoiling the market for those hobby collectors.
I watched a few documentary on China fakes. I was impress. I was never a fan of any branded goods. It made me feel like more discourage from going for all the big brands in the 1st place. They have too much fakes. Fake rice, fake eggs, fake milk powder, recycle cooking oil, fake coins, fake branded watches, fake branded bags and even scam town. My goodness. In the 90s I even remember that when America is going to shift the manufacturing to China, I knew this would come sooner or later. Look at hua wei and stuffs. All I can say history is going to repeat itself from the last 200 years I learnt in books.
Be kind to people. Sharing is Caring. Collect what you like and not by the Crowd.
To seek for perfection, it is too painful and there is a very high price to pay. To seek for something comfortable is more easy. To seek for nothing is even more easy.
I cannot stop laughing when i saw this years ago. It is way too obvious.
Be kind to people. Sharing is Caring. Collect what you like and not by the Crowd.
To seek for perfection, it is too painful and there is a very high price to pay. To seek for something comfortable is more easy. To seek for nothing is even more easy.
Citeer To be fair, they do state that it may possibly be a fake "Bright, possibly a modern copy with minor surface marks"
Some of the really good fakes that are done in silver can be very hard to tell, even for experts. A batch of Morgan dollar fakes coming out of Chine a couple of years ago managed to pass the scrutiny of many US coin dealers.
The auction that I purchased it from had no such statement. When I brought it to their attention they brushed me off. Also reported to liveauctioneers.com Neither one seems to care. So I suppose it's buyer beware.
Citeer To be fair, they do state that it may possibly be a fake "Bright, possibly a modern copy with minor surface marks"
Some of the really good fakes that are done in silver can be very hard to tell, even for experts. A batch of Morgan dollar fakes coming out of Chine a couple of years ago managed to pass the scrutiny of many US coin dealers.
The auction that I purchased it from had no such statement. When I brought it to their attention they brushed me off. Also reported to liveauctioneers.com Neither one seems to care. So I suppose it's buyer beware.
I am so sorry to hear that. But anyway just be careful next time. Do a little bit more research before buying unless you have very deep pockets. I have been con twice. So I knew how it feels like that my money goes to a con man. And I take it as a lesson learnt and I believe in karma. One day they will face it with bad consequences or even worst.
Meanwhile lets wait on the grading results that you send.
Be kind to people. Sharing is Caring. Collect what you like and not by the Crowd.
To seek for perfection, it is too painful and there is a very high price to pay. To seek for something comfortable is more easy. To seek for nothing is even more easy.
you meant something like this?
现在高仿多，三鸟世存一千枚左右，价格三千到二万多美金，帆船三鸟38.5毫米26.7克。1，正面“民国二十一年”的“一”字写法两端浑圆，苍劲有力，常见仿品“一”字两端尖锐，改刻币一横的长度较短，周围包浆异常，不自然