the Catalan Libra? [opgelost]

Sorting by face value in the Catalan section is really inconsistent.

Any advice?

This is what I could figure: the Croat was the dominant denomination. However Numista is based on Libra. There is no reference to the Libra in Calicó, Krause, or Friedberg?

I would propose this:
1/22 Trentin = 1/11 Principado/Ducat/Florin/Escudo = 1/3.5 Ecu = 1 Croat = 1.5 Real = 2 Sou = 9 Ardite = 18 (12 initially) Diners = 36 Obolo

source: https://monedescatalanes.blogspot.com/

Not perfect, but it's a start? At least the coins will sort properly, even if values fluctuated through the centuries

Regards

Andrei

The monetary system is the Carolingian one.
1 libra ( English pound, French livre) = 20 sous (shilling, sou)
1 sou = 12 diners (pence, denier)

There were many coins with this system in Catalonia, with values references to the above system. Also many coins have different official, numismatic and popular names.

Examples of coins:
1 trenti = 2 principats when made of gold
1 principat = 15 rals (croats for numismatics) but not always
1 croat = 2 sou (phisical coin, not unit of count)
5 rals = 1/2 libra
1 sise = 6 diners, but not always 1/4 of ral
1 ardit sometimes = 1 diner, sometimes = 2 diner
malla, senyal, pugesa, ... a lot of names

You can find the best reference about Spanish monetary systems in the proceedings of the XII National Congress of Numismatics -> http://www.siaen.org/documents/10901/11639/2004+-+Congreso+XII/ed5a5f19-77d3-4745-9f02-29d5acfefd70

Read pages 64-150 by J. Pellicer and X. Sanahuja.

Thank you for the reference! I am slowly going through it, very interesting reading.

However, my initial question remains. I will try to clarify:

• in Numista, Spain is based on the Real, while the Spanish states are based on the Libra. This is where I find it is inconsistent. I think the Libra system can accommodate much better the fluctuations in the actual values of different denominations through the centuries, but also creates some confusion, which leads to the next point:
  
• The Libra system is not explicitly written like for other issuers (random example here). That's why I proposed this line: 1/22 Trentin = 1/11 Principado/Ducat/Florin/Escudo = 1/3.5 Ecu = 1 Croat = 1.5 Real = 2 Sou = 9 Ardite = 18 (12 initially) Diners = 36 Obolo. Essentially very close to what you wrote explicitly.
  
• Finally, the main point I wanted to make is that a lot of coins are inconsistently referencing the monetary system (in this examle 1/2 Croat = 1/20 Libra and in this one 1 Croat = 1/20 Libra; another example here with 1 Real = 1 Libra). Some coins are not referencing it at all (example). So sorting by value is really messy,
  

Thanks!

I'm currently working in this catalog. I will let you know in this thread when finished.

About which unit to use in Numista as a basis for the field value in figures, I don't think it's important, while it's consistent. In today's monetary systems it's easy; but in the old trimetallic systems, which one to use in Numista?

One of the three account units could be used: libra (gold), sous (silver) or dinero (billon); or one of the main physical coins, such as the croat that you propose.

In Numista we can find examples of all kinds of trimetallic systems. Guidelines only says to use "main currency".

Great, thanks!

As you've noted, my main point was also re. consistency.

Let me know if I can help too

Regards

Andrei

Citeer: "zegeri"​I'm currently working in this catalog. I will let you know in this thread when finished.
​

​Most of the work in Principality of Catalonia is done. The sort by face value is now consistent. Descriptions, lettering, translations, most of images,... completed.

Many thanks zegeri! Looks great!

Is there a way to mark this thread as solved?
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strato