What is this Almohade mint?

Silver, 14x14 mm, 1.47 g




Whats is this mint?

Thanks for sharing these photos. The first coin is a nice example of the Almohad dirham. The two ‘mints’ may be the same but done by different engravers. Are they mints or something else? They do not correspond to the known mints. There are more than 50 examples with undeciphered writing in the mint position. Are they names, or expressions, or something else? We do not know at this time. I have not seen the first image, but here is an example of the second image from another coin.


The ‘flower’ pattern is also new. There are three flower patterns reported so far; all of those have the petals drawn in some fashion. Your example has dots.

Thanks again numisquare for your prompt reply.
There is only one coin (obverse & reverse) and a zoom of the "strange lettering"
I don't know where you find your photo, but it is the same sentence (or words) than mine.
Any reference for it?

The flower is not common, but the coin doesn't look like a millares.

I did not recognize the enlarged image of the ‘mint’ as being from your coin. I put it into Photoshop, inverted the colors and it then came out the same as your top image.

The photo is from a discussion group on the Spanish site: imperio-numismatico (reference item t111013 from 21 September, 2016). There it was identified as being from the mint of Rahba. . Your coin looks like رحبد ن (R h b d n)

Actually it's what Salvador Pena Martin from University of Malaga proposed in 2004 at 12th National Numismatic Congress from Madrid - Segovia based on the toponyms that appear inscribed on the coins.

Yes, I should have noted that the source of the drawing was that article by Salvador Peña Martín and Miguel Vega Martín.

It was not about citation but even the author it's pretty confused about what Rahba really is, since the word literary means square. He supposed that might be the city of Oujda in north of Morocco or maybe the district of other city. It's pretty hard to be very sure with almohad coins.

yvevmax's coin is definitely a different word, as there are two vertical lines after the ha and the last letter is probably a nun.

Yes I agree with numisquare, the writing is not Rahba.
And this is not only for my coin but also for the other coin (photo sent by numisquare).
Even if we consider that the last letter ن is a decoration (but I don't think so), the previous letter is not the same as the end of Rahba....,
Up to now, or are still unknown!

There are many almohad coins that has not been yet fully identified so it won't be a surprise to be a different mint.

Hello Yvevmax, I just discover this discution about this mint.

 

Here In Morocco numismatist speak about “zogonder” mint "زجندر"  I already request such modification in the page of Anonymous

 Dirham but, it wasn't accepted…

After I done some research of the subject and I think the Moroccan conclusion is correct.

We can find in the book "المعجب في تلخيص أخبار المغرب" written in 1220-1230 In Marrakesh (the capital of Almohad empire)

 

فمراكش هذه آخر المدن الكبار بالمغرب المشهورة به؛ وليس وراءها مدينة لها ذكر وفيها حضارة، إلا بليدات صغار بسوس الأقصى؛ فمنها مدينة صغيرة تسمى تَارُودَانْت، وهى حاضرة  

…سوس، وإليها يجتمع أهله. ومدينة أيضًا صغيرة تدعى زُجُنْدَر، هي على معدن الفضة، يسكنها الذين يستخرجون ما في ذلك المعدن

فأما تارودانت وزجندر فدخلتهما وعرفتهما؛ ولم أزل أعرف السفار من التجار وغيرهم، وخاصة إلى مدينة المعدن المعروفة بـ زجندر.

 

and also in same book we can find in the paragraph talking about Mines in Morocco and Andalusia : 

وبالقرب من مكناسة الزيتون على ثلاث مراحل منها حصن يدعى وَرْكَنَّاس، فيه معدن فضة؛ وقد ذكرنا معدن زجندر الذي بسوس، غير أن فضته ليست هناك، أعني فضة معدن زجندر.  

 

So It appear that it was a very known mine in sous region at the time of Almohad caliphs.

 

What about this region now ? 

 

Now using almost the same name, there is a silver mine called “Zgounder” in the central Anti-Atlas mountains located exactly in (30.762669294323885, -7.74251782685722), Here you can find the web site of the exploiting company of the site, where it appears that the site was exploited from 900-1200 ac : 

“The Zgounder silver deposit was first exploited between the 10th and 12th centuries, principally in exposed shallow oxidized zones with stringers of native silver hosted within EW, NS, NW and NEtrending veins. Excavation scars are the result of these old exploitation operations, which can exceed 60 meters in depth (Figure 18). Evidence of these ancient operations are found locally (Figure 19) and sectors containing many of these excavation sites have been mapped (Figure 20)”

 

https://ayagoldsilver.com/projects/zgounder/

 

As a conclusion the mint name of thus almohad coin is "Zgounder" in arabic “زجندر”.

Here two specimen from my collection, where in one of them we can see the dot of  ز : 

 

 

 

Here is another possible example.

I can read the mint as وحران Wahran  https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=318740

I verifies the coin in Zeno which appears here also :

https://www.sarc.auction/ALMOHAD-Anonymous-ca-1160-1275-AR-square-dirham-1-53g-Wahr-n-Oran-VF-XF_i55129783

 

I can't see the name وحران or even وهران (which is more natural “Oran” in actual Algeria) even if it appears in Hazard 606-- but with no picture 😕. 

 

The coins listed here are more clear and mine are in a better state and we can't see Wahran in any of them. Did any one have a picture of the Oran dirham listed in Hazard ? 

It seems clear to me although the script is crude, the coin on zeno is commented on by sma (Steve Album)

I said that because wahran وهران was a known city at Almohad time with this name in arabic as attested in "The Nuzhat al-mushtāq fī ikhtirāq al-āfāq (Arabic: نزهة المشتاق في اختراق الآفاق, lit. "The Excursion of One Eager to Penetrate the Distant Horizons"), commonly known in the West as the Tabula Rogeriana" so why will the name be typed in anther form وحران ? 

Hello Hamza,
I don't think it's possible to read Wahran (Oran) because the letters ("wah" and "ran" وهران) are too different. However, I'm more interested and confident in the Zgonder silver mine, as I believe it was common to mint coins nearby. If you've found this script (زجندر) in old books, I think it's the one that best matches your two coins and mine.

Tonegawa and Hohertz didn't mention this mint, but I believe that, especially for these square dirhams, there are still unidentified mint names in Arabic letters.

Thanks for your reply.