Wake up Corona!

The englis forum is quite quiet about it compared to the French one !
Just begin with a viral video

Its starting to be pretty serious here in Germany.
Monday half of our companies staff is bei g sent home to protect parents with parents with younger children as all schools are being locked down and then also our elderly and workers of weaker health.
likely that all shops except for Pharmacies, Supermarkets and other essential shops will be shut.
for us as a business that is a shock as all our customers will shut to.
developments are changing, developping and happening very quickly.
Stay safe everyone.

As effect for collectors, I have received mails from some Auction houses already shutting down.
Also postal services are being shut down in several countries.

I wanted to go to São Paulo tomorrow for a coin fair, but the mayor have announced 2 hours ago that public events are going to be cancelled and private events should be avoided, which means that the fair will likely not open tomorrow.
Cases of local transmission are starting to appear in Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo. My region have no positives so far, but the threat is real due to the port and the proximity to São Paulo.

Here in Hungary the situation is just starting (they closed all cinemas, big events etc..), but I’m working in Austria, and a lots of borders are closed, you can go through just on the big borders, and there are big queues of course.

in the coin world: lots of coin club meetings, coin fairs (maybe all of them) are cancelled.

Here in Spain we have a mess in my simple and inexpert opinion.

Since yesterday night/this morning, for 14-15 days we are in "alarm state"; a lot of shops and public spaces are closed by law, people is being asked to stay at home; some province goverments are asking to our main goverment to isolate them (thoose are the provinces with more cases of Covid)... I can continue.

All this rules and laws are okey for me but they waited too much to aply them; in the way to research this level of action the gave permission to make a lot of "political" manifestations and guess what... the politics involved in thoose manifestations, a few days before, were positive in Covid (almost all the big partys have one positive case )

Our neighbour Portugal, with almost no cases compared to us (~50 vs ~2500), made the same decision one day before! (If I recall well).Now a days we are in 5700 fuc$%g cases.

Also there is a point which exposes the irresponsibility of a lot of my compatriots; I live in the north of Spain, we were a lot of people from the capital and other provinces (which have the most cases of Covid) have his beach houses; they thought that it would be a good idea to go to this second houses since they dont have to work for 15 days... "holidays"... imagine the virus spread posibilities. In fact the first cases in my province were different people who came from the capital (which has the most of the cases ~2600); so, my province could be free of this virus but...

I am helping my mother in her shop, which can be open this days since she sells first necesity products; people is buying tons of food and toilet paper, supermarkets are empity like if we were on a war (and I didnt live none). Our goverment say that will not be shortages of this kind of products (food, toilet paper) but the intermediarys that sell products to my mom dont see this that clear as our goverment


(Photo its not my mother's shop, it is the toiled paper line of a supermarket I went yesterday to make my weekly food buy, which I couldnt do because there was nothing)

I think I needed two hours to write this and now I am trired of moving tons toilet paper so I will not write more

Here in Italy it's a disaster.
Please be careful , do not underestimate this virus.
We live with fear since 1 week, we lost the freedom trying to stop the virus and because we want to help hospitals.
I'm not afraid of getting sick but of infecting my family and I can't stay at home because the factory where I work doesn't close.
I can suggest you to get masks, gloves and disinfectant gel before they run out.

It's interesting to read updated statistics :
- Mainland China, the epidemy is stop since mid february

- USSR is still valid No case in Uzbekistan, Turmenistan and all other countries finishing by "stan". Kazakstan declared today 6 cases, and as usual Russia is underestimating its own cases.
- Pyiongyang and Egypt don't communicate
- New zealand : 6 cases today
- a pick af new cases confirmed yesterday and today (consequence of political decisions during these last 48 hours all other the world ?)

The main question I get : Why putting down the world economy for this virus ?
It looks to me like the computer bug of Year 2000 ...

Quote : December 14, 2017 Press release Geneva
Up to 650,000 deaths are linked to respiratory illnesses caused by seasonal flu each year, according to new estimates from the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the World Health Organization and their partners in global health action.

millions of people will die of this. 3% of infected population.

the computer bug of 2000 didn't cause life threatening lung infections.

how many millions can be reduced by positive action. oh, but the economy - ok - let millions more needlessly die so shop keepers will not have a bad year.

Citeer: "Mr. Midnight"​millions of people will die of this. 3% of infected population.
​
​the computer bug of 2000 didn't cause life threatening lung infections.
​
​how many millions can be reduced by positive action. oh, but the economy - ok - let millions more needlessly die so shop keepers will not have a bad year.
​

​That's the question.
Currently all over the world :
Death : 5789
Illness : 153585
lethality : 3.8%



but how many healthy carriers?
How many Chinese people who have been in contact with the virus and who haven't developed anything?
With their sense of secrecy, the development of the epidemic in Wuhan city was not announced until weeks after the spread of the virus. Containment measures in China were taken long after the virus had spread to a city of 9 million people. Result less than 1600 dead in Wuhan (I do not know the exact figure) while there was no particular protection during the development of the epidemic with an intense density of population and therefore more frequent exchanges than in other parts of the world .
We could then extrapolate a lethality of 0.1 per thousand which, brought down to 7 billion humans, would give without any protective measures 700,000 deaths, roughly the number of normal deaths from seasonal flu.

We can always discuss the approximation of my figures and I do not dispute basic measures to avoid the uncontrolled spread of the virus, on the other hand I wonder about the real need to stop everything and draw a line through the economy and hobbies. In France and in the majority of the countries of the world it is over, we stop everything.
There is a political, scientific and medical consensus which constantly spreads a global paranoia.
Is it really necessary?
I'm wondering.

Frenchlover I think you still take it a bit too lightly.
Always difficult to see what is going to happen in next 3-4 days.
German government has announced that they expect that 60-70% of the German Population will get this virus.
if the mortality rate is 3.8% and if I didn't calculate wrong that would mean just over 2 million deaths in Germany
Thats not what I say but what Angela Merkel and the rest of the government has said (They did not say any number of estimated deaths, only about the percentage of people who will get infected).
The effect on the financial world will be disastrous. My company sells 75% to independent shops, if these have to shut down Im not sure our business can survive the next few months.
Its important to remain calm but also to take some precautions if you have loved ones to take care of.

Last month I could not board a plane with a bottle of water in my hand luggage.

Put fear on the people and they will accept to lose their freedom.

Citeer: "apuking"...
​German government has announced that they expect that 60-70% of the German Population will get this virus.
​if the mortality rate is 3.8% and if I didn't calculate wrong that would mean just over 2 million deaths in Germany ...

​I'm quite sure there is a misunderstanding between getting the virus or be in touch with it, and being ill because of the virus. The rate of 3.8% is between illness and death.
Lets compare to Wuhan : 9 millions inhabitants, aound 1000 deaths without protection nor quarantine during the first phase of the epidemy.

How to stop the spread of infection is very well understood. it is described by a branch of maths called epidemiology. it is not hard to understand.
if we stop breathing each other's breath for a few weeks the virus will be gone forever.
if we do not stop but just keep doing our daily business because the economy demands, the disease will circle the world over and over, infest every city and town, and keep killing people for a year or more.

I Don know what to say. Coming from a Singapore point of view all I can say are the below.

Avoid crowded places.

Wash hands before eatting, reach home. Wipe the door knob with disinfection daily. Avoid touching your face if possible.

Wear a mask if you are sick or your defense is weak. If you think it's a must, then go ahead. For me I Don wear it at all since day one. But I carry it because if I get a new of the place have 1 case I will wear it immediately. Remember to dispose properly and not on the road.

Do not go and become a zombie hoarding shopper. It will not do any good. Singapore in the beginning they hoard. Then they try to ask for refund. Silly people. I never go to hoard because I always have at least 1 week of food at home always. Toilet paper? Just bidet it.

Do not spread rumors. Follow the news closely.

When things like this happens to other country, always read the news. I was following this very closely and predict that it will infect the whole world due to method of spreading. In fact people who die from it are the ones that has preexisting illness or elderly. Stay safe everyone.

Citeer: "Saber82"...
​​Wear a mask if you are sick or your defense is weak. If you think it's a must, then go ahead. For me I Don wear it at all since day one. But I carry it because if I get a new of the place have 1 case I will wear it immediately. Remember to dispose properly and not on the road.
​...

​In France, all masks are requisitioned to provide caregivers and people with coronavirus. They alone are concerned by the wearing of the mask, and not the general public. Impossible to get any mask here since the beginning of the epidemy.

Hello collectors.
Experience needs to be exchanged, because we know we know nothing. I think everyone in the EU understood , the main role played by the EU institutions that beautiful speed in decision making , and, above all, that EU citizens come first in their care. I like Brussels' readiness to face these challenges.

So here's how to behave in a quarantine and not bother others not yet infected :



Ivan

Re: Merkel

Just google it and you will find many versions of what Merkel said, both in English and in German. Some sources retell it using the words "will" and German "werden", others use "can", "could", "might", German "können". One version presents this claim as a part of a longer passage with several "ifs". I don't know which version was the first, but better don't rely on this "Merkel's" claim alone.

The words were on live TV and it was „will be infected“ not only Merkel but also our jealth minister and the Robert Koch Health institute who said the same.

Here in the USA, we're late to the party as usual, but as the numbers climb, more and more information is coming out. And as usual in the USA, most of it is helpful, but some is nonsense. We have a love of the absurd in this country. I.E. hording toilet paper.
In my state, schools are closed for three weeks, so parents and other people are stocking up (NOT HORDING) foodstuffs like soup, peanut butter and meat. Cleaning products and other essentials - like toilet paper and facial tissue - are hard to find in the stores too.
It seems common sense is winning out at the moment. Our leaders are encouraging and legislating "Self-isolation," so most sports and public events like concerts have canceled and most work places have implemented a work from home schedule.
I am sure things will return to normal once medical science catches up to this virus. Until then, I'll do my best to self-isolate, because while I am not in a high-risk group, I know many people that are and I don't want to help contribute to spreading the disease.
This too shall pass, hopefully with minimal damage.

in Italy perhaps somebody joked about the coronavirus when it was only a Chinese problem but what was said by this English doctor Mr. Jessen (I put the link of the article) is unacceptable and unfortunately he will soon realize it.
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/03/13/dr-christian-jessen-italy-coronavirus-covid-19-long-siesta-racism-fubar-radio/

Citeer: "raduga7"​in Italy perhaps somebody joked about the coronavirus when it was only a Chinese problem but what was said by this English doctor Mr. Jessen (I put the link of the article) is unacceptable and unfortunately he will soon realize it.
​https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/03/13/dr-christian-jessen-italy-coronavirus-covid-19-long-siesta-racism-fubar-radio/

​To this age, people who thinks like this, the illness only affects certian race or country, their brains is as small as a peanut. The new reports for 3 months and people who thinks like this are basically useless.

The worst ones are the ones who ask nurses to get out. All roles are important. If everyone wants to be a president, who plays other roles to make the country working? When they are in the front lines, we should give them moral support and not disgrace them.

Citeer: "Frenchlover"​

Citeer: "Saber82"...
​​​Wear a mask if you are sick or your defense is weak. If you think it's a must, then go ahead. For me I Don wear it at all since day one. But I carry it because if I get a new of the place have 1 case I will wear it immediately. Remember to dispose properly and not on the road.
​​...
​
​

​​In France, all masks are requisitioned to provide caregivers and people with coronavirus. They alone are concerned by the wearing of the mask, and not the general public. Impossible to get any mask here since the beginning of the epidemy.

​Actually, if I were you, I would have ship it in if possible before the pandamic arrives as a caution. I am not very sure what is the status in France.

I heard the most funny is north Korea. Then there was also a 1 and 0 thingy going on. One guy was send to execution squad as he defiled the qurantieen order. Lol....

Coronavirus It's so dangereous, it's not like a flu. Flu kills about 500000-700000 people per year. Covid19 at the moment, if we consider a mortality rate of 3,8%, can kill 300 million people (considered a world population of 7,7 billion people, and considering all them affected). On this percentage hypoteses are not concordant: it's clear to all that methods of evaluating it are so different and in certain cases authorities hide data. Some recent articles I've read talk about a mortality rate of 3-6%. To understand what's the real percentage we'll probably wait the end of the pandemy.
Moreover covid19 has another difference with flu: a person with flu can infect 1,3 people while a person with covid19 can infect 2-3 people. So covid19 spreads faster and more widely.
Ok, now you can say: but, it's not important the percentage of died because they are elderly people...wrong reasoning because the more affected the more the number of young people affected seriously increases: it's what is happening now in Italy. Don't forget that if covid affects teens can leave morbility in them, we'll understand it in the future. Note: morbility=less productive population and more money spent for those people (in countries with a national health system).
Now, consider the problem from an economic point of view...the disease lasts around 2 weeks in paucisymptomatic people, more for severe cases. If a country establish to close everything probably each person in it will be affected in a short time, those people must stay at home/hospital, national health system will be stressed a lot and the country will close everything (shops, factories, offices) anyway.
If governments close everything there is a reason. In Italy if the government hadn't closed everything it would have been an uncostitutional thing. Furthermore if governments close everything it's also because it probaly will cost less than taking care of a sick country. I'll use as always my country to make an example.
Ex. Italy has a population of 60 million people. Considering that covid19 affect in a serious way 20% of the people and considering that everything it's still open (so virus can spread widely) I can deduce that 12 million people will be affected in a serious way. A day in an ICU costs on average 1500€/day, so 1500€*14 days*12 million people = 252 billion € (!!!) not considering the morbility, the reduced production, the costs of hospitalization in a common ward (not ICU).
This value it's probably higher than the loss resulting from the closure.
Sorry for the long message

I would just like to say that I with you all stay safe!

Jarek

Citeer: "Saber82"​​​
​​Actually, if I were you, I would have ship it in if possible before the pandamic arrives as a caution. I am not very sure what is the status in France.
​

the status of the epidemic in France is serious. We are at level 3.
4500 illness cases, 91 deaths.
Regarding the wearing of masks there is a cultural difference between East Asia and France. In Singapore, Hong Kong or Japan if you are sick or cough, you will naturally wear a mask to protect those around you. It is not the habit here, we are not culturally altruistic, we are not used to wear a mask to protect others.
There are now people who wear the mask in big cities, in the metro, but anyway, there is no mask anymore for sale for healthy people, and we will soon be unable to put toilet paper around the head to replace a mask because it's the rush for what seems to be here the most important commodity in the civilized world

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Hello collectors.
I think, colleagues- the situation in Europe very dinamically and gets worse every day.
It is interesting to follow the approach of individual states. Laxity some states doesn't make sense to me.
Counselors of politicians who have an influence they may have:
- a certain intention and thoughtfulness ?
- more information than others ?
- racism and intent ?
- incompetent yen from wealthy spoiled families ?
- what the intent is actually ?
Individual measures are copied with each other from the delay possible, as well and delayed after all, it introduces quarantine.
mortality three to seven percent is perhaps quite deterrent for every state.
Restrict contacts, personal responsibility ( make protective equipment-tutorials are on the Web ), and whom you choose in the elections, he is supposed to protect you / and that's stupid that/
God with you Ivan

As we'll soon be in confinement in France, I would like to know the experience of Italians and Spanish.
Do people still work ? I heard that madrilenians take the opportunity to spend good time at the beach, etc. ...

This is how the whole country got infected
Someone who is not sick is healthy but he can be a carrier without knowing it, Receive and transmit.

Good morning from "infected" Spain.

We are in "alarm" status from last saturday. More than 10000 cases detected yesterday, and lot of cases not detected /not published... No option for more test, just for people in "bad situation" in hospitals. Rest of people with any signs, not important, of infection, you can't go to the medical services, only phone info, and stay home.

No class for children, almost stores closed, just first needs open, and all supermarket with lot of people (more than reccomended) and no food everyday... at the moment no problem because trucks with supplies arrive, but the politicians (lot of them positives, I don't know if they are a "different speciment" more easy to be infected, or simply, all of them have access to corona test), say that this 15 days of quarantaine will be extended.

Probably we will lost thousand of small companies and thousand of employs and ecconomic consequences will be giant.

So, lot of days at home, time to order our collection, difficult to swap (no possible or recommended to go to post office if no strictly needed), and we hope all this finish soon.

Other question is about two people that you all know good, mainly because they are in lot of spanish coins, the old and present king. Old king, Juan Carlos, drugs and prostitutes friendly, is involved in serious corruption cases, and Felipe, probably involved, or knowing this cases, is appearing in the middle of Coronavirus apocalipsis to be ignored. Good moment to destroy (sorry, stop) the monarchy eclipsed by a virus?

So, patience... and at the moment food and beer to stay home!

Citeer: "raduga7"​in Italy perhaps somebody joked about the coronavirus when it was only a Chinese problem but what was said by this English doctor Mr. Jessen (I put the link of the article) is unacceptable and unfortunately he will soon realize it.
​https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/03/13/dr-christian-jessen-italy-coronavirus-covid-19-long-siesta-racism-fubar-radio/

​quoting "pink news" is unacceptable and unfortunately soon you will realize eit

Advice from Hong Kong.
Please, please wear a mask.
Some people might say that you don't need to wear a mask because it doesn't provide complete protection from the virus.
However, one must understand that not providing guaranteed protection is still an improvement over having none at all.
Also, the virus can spread before you show symptoms, and there are cases of people who have been infected and are spreading the virus but have no symptoms at all. Wearing a mask only when you're sick does not take this into account.
Furthermore, the mask's main purpose isn't to stop you from getting the virus, it's to stop you from spreading the virus in you have it. It's quite effective in that way.*

Case in point: Switzerland got their first case a month after HK did. Switzerland has about the same population, and at a much lower population density than Hong Kong. HK is much closer to the ground zero of the virus (Wuhan). By any count, HK should have been harder-hit than Switzerland, but Switzerland has 14-15x the number of cases as HK, and rising very rapidly.
The reason is that HKers wear masks. If you go onto the street, everyone you see (or nearly everyone) will be wearing a mask. People here are extremely hygiene-conscious.

During SARS, HK accounted for more than a third of global deaths. We learned the hard way that wearing masks is a must. Please, don't tread on known minefields. Social distancing will not work on its own.
Wear a mask.

*(It is indeed quite effective, but only if a critical mass of people start wearing masks. And it's quite hard to kickstart that critical mass if people in the West are so opposed to the idea of wearing masks, as I have had the impression of lately.)

Hi
The crisis measure is already at its maximum, municipalities from a greater concentration of infected are also closed, car factories stopped production.
Restrictions on the movement of persons for the sole reason of . I had to go to the main Stiah / viral separation/ hospital in Prague yesterday- the measures and protection system is fascinating.
The Czechs never wore masks it was considered ridiculous and who had it was suspicious and everyone would respond to it.
Within two days, the setuation changed 180 degrees, who has no veil is reprimand.
Because none at all medical masks no one has given people and they are not in stores .The state allowed the opening of haberdashery for women who called pa fabrics, also old home shirts with cotton have been used.

Our women organized sewing for neighbors and vendors across the country using the web across the country and everyone wears masks, Their neighborhood protection is only 50 percent that have the original supply accounts they will carry.
This is my wife's work for kids around:

This one is at work and the one that says "I've raised my parents since I was a kid".
Ahoj Ivan

Citeer: "MIMAEL"​The Czechs never wore masks it was considered ridiculous and who had it was suspicious and everyone would respond to it.

​Unfortunately, this is the mindset in a lot of western countries that led to my problems detailed above. When everyone thinks wearing masks is ridiculous, it's hard to actually get a lot of people to wear masks.

Citeer: "HongKongCoinCollector"​

Citeer: "MIMAEL"​The Czechs never wore masks it was considered ridiculous and who had it was suspicious and everyone would respond to it.
​
​

​​Unfortunately, this is the mindset in a lot of western countries that led to my problems detailed above. When everyone thinks wearing masks is ridiculous, it's hard to actually get a lot of people to wear masks.

​Yes colleague it is, It is true. But everything changed in 24 hours, perhaps grandmothers and women through an instagram across the state , they organize themselves the protection and solilidarity of people awakens to help the elderly scout movement, students, women, etc. They come to help. It is spontaneous and awakens humanity.
My wife is still on full throttlesews to everyone:

Ahoj Ivan

In France, wearing a mask is only 'advisable' for sick people or those returning from abroad, it is reserved for health personnel.
This makes one suspect that the one who wears it outside is sick.
However, this is a good way to restore a distance of one meter in the queues! Only protection solution imposed in authorized outings or at home.
The businesses that had them, whatever the model, were robbed from the start, the same for hydroalcoholic gel.
It has been said that the main customers of the manufacturers are the UK and the Far East, which had to be requisitioned and had the military deliveries to hospitals.

Hello everyone, I have not been very active on Numista for a while but I came on to wrap up a couple of swaps and set my profile to pause swapping for now.

It is nice to hear from people I sort of "know" who are in various other countries with various situations. My heart goes out to those of you in Europe and especially in Italy and Spain. I am crossing my fingers that in the US, or at least in my state (New York) we have been watching the places that got hit earlier and have taken it seriously from earlier in the cycle. Schools have been closed here since Monday and I have been working from home. My wife, along with all nonessential employees, has been ordered to stay home since there were two positive cases on the campus where she works. Restaurants have been ordered to close and are take-out only. Bars and gyms and movie theatres are closed. At this point many of us are staying home as much as possible and only going out for essential shopping. All this happened before or just as we had our first confirmed cases (on Saturday). We are up to 20 cases in a county of 920,000 people. That is not a big number yet but there hasn't been much testing available until just the past day or two. So right now we wait to see how bad it is going to get. A lot of foolish people ignored the advice to stay home and went to bars and restaurants for St. Patrick's Day last weekend before the government required the bars to close, so I worry the numbers will go up in a few days.

As far as masks go, in the US we are advised to only wear masks if we are sick and need to travel (for example, to see a doctor). Mainly I think this is because there is a shortage of masks and if everyone buys them there won't be enough for the health care workers who really need them.

These are strange times and nobody knows how it will turn out. I take some hope from the fact that it looks like China has "turned the corner" on the epidemic and begun to get it under control, and maybe South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc., as well. (Correct me if you think that is an misstatement, HongKongCoinCollector.)

Take care, everyone - stay at home and catch up with your backlog of coins to catalog, if you have it!

Here in Poland since last week we have lock down. Everyone who can, work from home. Since Monday we have 14days national quarantine. There is no flights to/from Poland same with railways. Only Poles can come back to the country or the people who have permanent residence card. Open are only groceries, pharmacies gas stations the rest is closed. The post work only domestic. In last week we were lack of pasta, toilet paper, cans etc. but after today visit at shop they come back on store shelves. 86% infected people in China is recovered so there is a light in the tunnel. Stay strong and be in good health. Hope this will end soon.
Regards,
Damian

I do hope the numbers we get from China are true.

Citeer: "apuking"​I do hope the numbers we get from China are true.

​Yeah

WOW, I got real discussed yesterday, my wife became ill, now in her case, she has a history of Asthma and COPD, she is 55 years old. Coughing, lethargic, lungs wheezing.
They asked us, have you traveled out of the USA or been near anyone with Corona Virus, we said "NO" because it was true. They gave her a mask but not me? weird, Id be sick too as I live with her. weird.
All the staff had no gloves, the food trey guy had no gloves, etc. I saw 2 Hospital people wearing masks, but not the others. staff of 15.
She tested positive for FLU-A which was a relief, gave her a breathing treatment. And sent her home.
She is still in distress, we called a local hospital but they did not want to accept her in fear of contagion, damit- she cant breathe.
I understand they found the flu, but Im sure you can catch both virus's at the same time, I just thought it would be prudent to test both of us for Corona, but nope, no test at all. We asked the drive thru system, but nope cant get the test without a dr appt note, funny no doctor wants to let us in the office, cant get a NOTE, what a screwed up system, all I can say so far is our government lied. There are no test here available in the Tallahassee area, the freaking capital of Florida, really?
Now think, I went to two bathrooms coughing and they never wiped it down? My wife also visited the bathroom twice while in ER. No wipe.
WOW, we are doomed if medical staff cant understand how the disease works we sure cant. what the HELl.

Sad to hear that @13coinmike hope all will go on your thoughts. As far as i know all ER, hospitals are lack or out of masks gloves etc. As far as i know mask dont help health people. The mask should wear ill people to not infect others. In my opinion they should make a quarantine to all so people will not be infected all the time but im aware how hard this is with all consequences. If sooner they closed the sooner they get rid the virus.

Citeer: "13coinmike"​WOW, ... what the HELl.

​Weird, weird, weird, in case of ... just let die. Just unbelievable in Europe

In France all factory plants are impacted. Operators want to rest home and being paid !
And the government issued today a new directive : Any employee getting heart problem should stay home (without mentionning proven problems). I'm sure tomorrow half of the factory will stay home : Yes sometimes I've got some heart problem ... proven or not, that's not the problem, but tomorrow may be a rectificative governmental directive might be issued ?

I've been told that The Netherlands follows a different path, until yesterday they were just waiting for a large spread of the virus for a broad immunization. I'll find out about recent developments if there are any :

Prime Minister Mark Rutte wants to promote the acquisition of collective immunity by rejecting the principle of confinement. According to him, a maximum of people must naturally develop antibodies to Covid-19. Mark Rutte believes that many Dutch people will be infected with this coronavirus and the more people who are immune, the less likely it is that the spread will spread to vulnerable people and the elderly.
Also, for the virus to circulate, there will be no containment, because according to the Prime Minister, a complete closure of the kingdom could last between several months and a year without guarantee that the Covid-19 will not strike at again when the measures are lifted.
However, this collective immunity will take months to build and to spread the peak of hospital saturation, the Batavian government still announces mass closings: schools, cafes and restaurants, but also coffee shops and brothels.
Even if the Dutch are rather disciplined, they make reservations and they rushed in particular to the coffee shops to stock up on cannabis. As a result, the government has decided to allow coffee shops to reopen, but only for take-out, to help prevent drug trafficking from taking place.

Hi
Masks won't be anywhere, there is a shortage. It takes 5 minutes to build a respirator at home from the process on the web.
bag no vacuum cleaner for allergy sufferers catch 99.9 percent , cut respirator shape sew 5cm in hand or machine and thread the laces .
don't expect anyone to give you anything. I'm sorry to see laxity in the world and the stupidity of politicians .
Please do not wait and protect others , today published the properties of the virus on objects :

plastic -up to 48 hours, on metal I think 8-9 hours, at least 3 hours in the air.

fight- don't wait
Ivan

The deal is, if I were an Actor, or Politician, even without symptoms, I could have gotten the test.
Just BULL-CRAP.

The mask was not the issue, it was the fact I wanted to protect others in ER as they are vulnerable. If the hospital cared about themselves and others, WE should have been quarantined immediately, and not able to use the bathrooms, use a bed style urinal, but nope I could not get one. Just stupid. We stayed 6 hours in a tiny room, the next patient went in after us in 20 minutes, so if it is in the air a long time, then again our Medical Staff sucks. They GOTTA DO BETTER.

Citeer: "Frenchlover"​However, this collective immunity will take months to build and to spread the peak of hospital saturation, the Batavian government still announces mass closings: schools, cafes and restaurants, but also coffee shops and brothels.

​Well, this is the goal of all the closures and "stay at home" orders. It's assumed that no matter what, the majority of people will eventually catch this virus (you have to go grocery shopping, etc.) but by staying home as much as possible we slow down the infection rate, so as not to overwhelm the hospital system for the severe cases that really need medical intervention. "Flattening the curve" as it has been called, to within the capacity of the healthcare system to absorb.

Citeer: "Jesse11"​It's assumed that no matter what, the majority of people will eventually catch this virus (you have to go grocery shopping, etc.) ...

​If you compare to the former epidemy of SARS-CoV, the majority of people didn't catch it, even though last statistics are pretty alarmant

In Spain we were going to be at home till this last days of the month... since yesterday, we are going to be at home till half of the next month because, like in a TV series said: "The worst is coming"

Czech Republic regrets 'misunderstanding' in confiscating Chinese-donated masks destined for Italy

Citeer: "Frenchlover"​
​Czech Republic regrets 'misunderstanding' in confiscating Chinese-donated masks destined for Italy

​Ahoj
Yes, and great regret and a written apology by the Minister of the Interior . This week, a shipment to Italy will be taken with a big apology.
Customs and police forces seized the illegal warehouse, the owner of the Chinese restaurant offered 3x overpriced prices for medical supplies offered sales to all.
The police intervened- when it was shown that part of the contraband where the price was declared 0,30 hellers/for one
offered for 33 CZK - I think 100 times
this is a criminal offense at a time of exceptional state. It is fair to acknowledge the mistake of apologizing and sending the material to the recipient, and it will be this week.
So much to explain, we are not a beast.
Yours sincerely , and everyone have health.
Ivan
I have to add:Reporting France and Italy was false, reporters lied and created false reports, of 680 K masks was a gift 100 K psc and it was not seized from the plane v but it was in an illegal warehouse and it was offered by a Chinese trader at huge prices for sale ,, journalist bitch require sensation and many foolish fool
Ivan

Read yesterday a tweet that I identified with in some way, it said somehting like:

"We are mad because our goverment was late to take actions versus the Covid-19... but if they had taken actions like the quarentine when we had 3 infecteds (so the virus would not have spread all over the country) we would be mad anyway because of the economic impact (like: you idiots made all this circus for only 3 guys with a kind of chinese flu? come on!)"


I hope it serves to reflect in some way

Citeer: "klei92"​Read yesterday a tweet that I identified with in some way, it said somehting like:
​
​"We are mad because our goverment was late to take actions versus the Covid-19... but if they had taken actions like the quarentine when we had 3 infecteds (so the virus would not have spread all over the country) we would be mad anyway because of the economic impact (like: you idiots made all this circus for only 3 guys with a kind of chinese flu? come on!)"
​
​
​I hope it serves to reflect in some way

​Have a nice day and evening.
I totally disagree with this view, and don't be mad at me.
There is a popular saying: ,,Only an idiot learns on his own mistakes, clever person / state / at the mistakes of others learn,,

Every week losses are thousands of lives at stake, and look at how many states are lax to take action on time, and the whole game of virus with us is just about time prepare and distribute the burden.

But I have to commend the virus for its fairness, he doesn't care who is rich he has acquaintances and is in politics or the artist is known a beggar and a wreck or average. is without class bias. Is without class bias that a lot of people will suffer from the laxity and stupidity of people who are supposed to be responsible and lead what they take nice money from our taxes .
It's just my opinion I don't know if I'm wrong .
Ivan

Hello Ivan (Mimael)

I agree with you, in fact, in the first days "of this mess", I posted in this thread that I was "in my simple and inexpert opinion" mad at the slowliness and some of the actions my goverment (Spain) was taken; they keep trying but a lot of the damage its already done here.

Nevertheless, I can also agree with the tweet; if our goverments had taken hard actions when we had less than 10 infected (and so the virus would not have spread all over the country... despite others...), the economic impact in our country would have been terrible, and so, we will be mad anyway

Citeer: "klei92"​Hello Ivan (Mimael)
​
​I agree with you, in fact, in the first days "of this mess", I posted in this thread that I was "in my simple and inexpert opinion" mad at the slowliness and some of the actions my goverment (Spain) was taken; they keep trying but a lot of the damage its already done here.
​
​Nevertheless, I can also agree with the tweet; if our goverments had taken hard actions when we had less than 10 infected (and so the virus would not have spread all over the country... despite others...), the economic impact in our country would have been terrible, and so, we will be mad anyway
​

​​Ahoj
I express my great participation beforehand with your country .

All states are f***ed, and afraid of transnational capital large companies . They are afraid of economic impacts.
At the expense of sacrificing part of the population. It's all about the sustainability of the health system , and most people will be affected anyway .Economic and time to balance what is more important people's lives or economic losses The economy and especially politics will suffer enormous gashes
,,I'm afraid your old Mr. King will be begging,, when a nation so loves it.
Everyone stick and fight -Whether you are healthy.
I am sorry that even numismatics will suffer Merchants require a cashless payment ,afraid of cash -and that will be our loss in the future.
I wish everyone health
Ivan

Stop COVID-19 and Future Pandemics

Most of all I'm afraid lots of people with mental issues might have a breakdown. Just in case I'd like to share this list of hotlines https://addictionresource.com/addiction-and-rehab-hotlines/nebraska-numbers/. They also have other regions included.

There are many difficult cases to manage: deaf people who cannot read the lips when we get a mask, many misunderstandings no longer dare to go out for fear of meeting a person they know without understanding what he says, for hypochonriacs it’s definitely not a good time for them, the case of Trump stuffing himself with chloroquine