Hi i've been seeing lots of old cleaned coins. for example, the year of the coin is from 1900's and below. If you clean it and get it graded, will it still hold its value?
if not, by how much will its value be? can you please cite an example to make it clear... thank you!
Cleaned coin always loses its value. It's no point to clean a coin. I know some people just like them clean and shiny. But if you start doing it, you will lose money in the end.
Say even if you cleaned it really properly, only removed the patina without damaging the coin, you are still going to lose out is most cases. Even say only 1 coin ever minted same. Lose value.
Be kind to people. Sharing is Caring. Collect what you like and not by the Crowd.
To seek for perfection, it is too painful and there is a very high price to pay. To seek for something comfortable is more easy. To seek for nothing is even more easy.
The important distinction is between properly and improperly cleaned coins. In general the old saying "Never clean your coins" holds true however it's a bit more nuanced than that. Each of the major TPGs has a branch specialising in cleaning coins. The call it conserving or restoring but that's just semantics - they're cleaning coins. If there's a particular coin you'd like to spruce up a bit while retaining it's value you could submit it to be slabbed and cleaned by the same company. They can't really charge you a fee to properly clean it and then body bag it because they improperly cleaned it!
Maybe, like me, you have no time for these TPG pirates and consider them to be detrimental to sound numismatics and would like to try it yourself. Well, now you're on thin ice. It can be done but it takes a lot of skill and practice and no matter how competent you may become there's always a risk that it might go wrong. I would advise you very strongly to pause long and hard before proceeding. Practice on your pocket change and see what you make of the results. You should not use and kind of abrasive as it will destroy the coins surface. Once you've worked out a method you can live with, try it on a few really bad examples in your collection which are so grimy that they have no value.
We don't really talk about it but the overwhelming majority of 100+ year old coins have been cleaned / restored / restored at some point during their life as collector's items. That doesn't make it OK. Countless coins have been ruined by collectors wanting a mint fresh appearance. As late as the 1980s many collectors didn't distinguish between toning (good!) and tarnish (bad) They're actually pretty much the same thing except tarnish isn't easy on the eye. Those few coins which escaped the well intentioned carnage and still have their original toned surfaces can bring a huge premium. So much so that many unscrupulous types artificially tone them.
A much better skill to develop is rescuing cleaned coins. If they're scored very badly like someone's been at them with a wire brush then all is lost. But a coin with a few hairlines can be fixed. Every collector should have a pocket piece - a high value coin ruined by careless cleaning. Quite simply, you take it with you everywhere you go like a lucky charm. A few months or even years (!) of rattling around in your pocket with your car keys, cigar lighter etc. will change your cleaned EF half crown into a problem free VF coin. It's also pretty nice to have a good looking Victorian half crown to pull out and show non collectors what all the fuss is about.
You can also restore a coin's patina to some degree by mimicking the conditions which caused it in the first place. Instead of taking decades it can be done in months. It's beyond the scope of the current discussion but I've explained the process I find works several times. A forum search should bring up the relevant topics.
Good luck and please proceed with the utmost caution if at all.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
You would think so if you came to Hong kong or China. Chinese coins that are cleaned still get a HUGE mark up. Hundreds to thousands of US dollars for cleaned and damaged coins, it's insane.
To answer your question, yes they are but significantly less valuable than untouched ones.
Citeer: "FeroxDrakenHK"You would think so if you came to Hong kong or China. Chinese coins that are cleaned still get a HUGE mark up. Hundreds to thousands of US dollars for cleaned and damaged coins, it's insane.
To answer your question, yes they are but significantly less valuable than untouched ones.
wow can you tell me where i could sell chinese coins on that price?
Citeer: "FeroxDrakenHK"You would think so if you came to Hong kong or China. Chinese coins that are cleaned still get a HUGE mark up. Hundreds to thousands of US dollars for cleaned and damaged coins, it's insane.
To answer your question, yes they are but significantly less valuable than untouched ones.
wow can you tell me where i could sell chinese coins on that price?
I mean you can try to sell it, but if anyone buys it, that's the problem.
Before Covid-19, Hong Kong was a hot money market. You see cleaned Yuan-Shikai coins in PCGS holders in XF detail or worse going for over $500USD. People across the border in China have too much money and hardly any knowledge. Now things have calmed down, and we don't have any more visitors until the lockdown ends, the coin shops and the famous Ho Mong Kok Numis-mall is dead quiet....
Citeer: "thebenjamincode"Hi i've been seeing lots of old cleaned coins. for example, the year of the coin is from 1900's and below. If you clean it and get it graded, will it still hold its value?
if not, by how much will its value be? can you please cite an example to make it clear... thank you!
If you clean it the grading companies won't grade it. So don't clean them. There are conserved coins, which usually means the coin has been dipped in a mild acid solution to remove undesirable toning, but that is the exception. Bottom line, most cleaned coins lose the vast majority of their value.
Citeer: "pnightingale"The important distinction is between properly and improperly cleaned coins. In general the old saying "Never clean your coins" holds true however it's a bit more nuanced than that. Each of the major TPGs has a branch specialising in cleaning coins. The call it conserving or restoring but that's just semantics - they're cleaning coins. If there's a particular coin you'd like to spruce up a bit while retaining it's value you could submit it to be slabbed and cleaned by the same company. They can't really charge you a fee to properly clean it and then body bag it because they improperly cleaned it!
Maybe, like me, you have no time for these TPG pirates and consider them to be detrimental to sound numismatics and would like to try it yourself. Well, now you're on thin ice. It can be done but it takes a lot of skill and practice and no matter how competent you may become there's always a risk that it might go wrong. I would advise you very strongly to pause long and hard before proceeding. Practice on your pocket change and see what you make of the results. You should not use and kind of abrasive as it will destroy the coins surface. Once you've worked out a method you can live with, try it on a few really bad examples in your collection which are so grimy that they have no value.
We don't really talk about it but the overwhelming majority of 100+ year old coins have been cleaned / restored / restored at some point during their life as collector's items. That doesn't make it OK. Countless coins have been ruined by collectors wanting a mint fresh appearance. As late as the 1980s many collectors didn't distinguish between toning (good!) and tarnish (bad) They're actually pretty much the same thing except tarnish isn't easy on the eye. Those few coins which escaped the well intentioned carnage and still have their original toned surfaces can bring a huge premium. So much so that many unscrupulous types artificially tone them.
A much better skill to develop is rescuing cleaned coins. If they're scored very badly like someone's been at them with a wire brush then all is lost. But a coin with a few hairlines can be fixed. Every collector should have a pocket piece - a high value coin ruined by careless cleaning. Quite simply, you take it with you everywhere you go like a lucky charm. A few months or even years (!) of rattling around in your pocket with your car keys, cigar lighter etc. will change your cleaned EF half crown into a problem free VF coin. It's also pretty nice to have a good looking Victorian half crown to pull out and show non collectors what all the fuss is about.
You can also restore a coin's patina to some degree by mimicking the conditions which caused it in the first place. Instead of taking decades it can be done in months. It's beyond the scope of the current discussion but I've explained the process I find works several times. A forum search should bring up the relevant topics.
Good luck and please proceed with the utmost caution if at all.
As a museum-curator in training... I can kind of agree with this. We clean (Active Conservation we call it) our coins because we know how to. The problem though is that if we were to grade our coins we would get a "cleaned" mark on it. Because we exhibit our coins, they have to be good and resilient for another 100 years, not MS65.
Furthermore, the issue with Cleaning and Conservation is that one is always on thin ice. The thing is, everything that has been in museums has been Actively Conserved because paintings just don't live a lot longer than 25-50 years on display. Around 100 in storage. The same thing is with a coin. The "golden rule" in the museum world is: "Everything that you have in your collection will completely degrade, break, or in the end, have no educational or economical value, it's your job to keep that from happening for as long as possible". Am I going to display this for a week, or am I going to keep this in storage for another 100 years, so that nobody learns from it?
Personally, I conserve my coins, because it is my collection and I frankly don't care about the value of the coins themselves (I have the museum thought "something in my collection has no value").
As someone who isn't from the states, I also don't understand the extreme grading obsession there is. The desire to have the PF70 double cameo with complete other nonsensical labels they can be sold again at a massive premium.
A collector should do what he/she likes to do and that is that. Collect for the sake of collecting the coins. If they like to dump every coin in coin polish, let them do it. If they feel like making hobo-dollars from Mint State 1896S Morgans, so what? Do what you like, but do your research and don't have regrets from your decisions.
"A collector should do what he/she likes to do and that is that. Collect for the sake of collecting the coins. If they like to dump every coin in coin polish, let them do it. If they feel like making hobo-dollars from Mint State 1896S Morgans, so what? Do what you like, but do your research and don't have regrets from your decisions."
I share this point of view.
To me it's all about the coin, not it's economic value, but I don't clean them for sure.
Coins with history, bullet impacts, sword/axe marks etc. as well as the mud or whatever from the past do have my interest and attention. It's a personal choice indeed.
Interesting thread. I didn’t see the problem with cleaning until I came across some obviously circulated coins (nicked and well-worn) that were ridiculously shiny. It looks daft in my opinion.
What do people think about basic washing with warm water and a bit of detergent though?
Maybe it’s just the bulk lots I’ve been sourcing from, but I find so many filthy coins. Like, your finger tips are black after handling and some even smell bad. I’ve taken to routinely washing them as a result.
It depends on the type of cleaning. If it's just a surface clean with alcohol or acetone to remove any surface grease and dirt while leaving the toning intact then that will not affect the value. However if it has been dip stripped, buffed, cleaned with abrasives, pretty much anything that removes the toning on the coin to make it look all shiny then that will seriously affect the value.
Citeer: "pnightingale"I wouldn't try it on your MS71 ultra cameo first strike bullion coins though.
Well, probably not. But then I guess the chance of one of those turning up in a bag of change, covered in god-knows-what and smelling of cigarette butts is fairly low.
