Romanian occupation of Transnistria [opgelost]

WWII Romanian occupation of Transnistria M17-22 are the same with Transnistria M1-6. These notes are cataloged twice, same mistake as in Krause. Considering that all occupation notes are cataloged under the occupied country I suggest deleting this notes from the Romanian section.

Any thoughts?

That is a great point. I look forward to other thoughts on the matter.

up

I've already voted for this. Not sure what else I can do.

I appreciate it.

I would also vote for Romania deletion.

Yep, me too. Just seems unnecessary to have the exact same bills in 2 different countries.

Hello,

Sadly, these notes are a reminder of one of the most disgraceful parts of Romanian history. But thanks for pointing out the duplicates, allexis.

I have a bit of a different proposal, in line with some recent discussions with defining issuers.

I propose the creation of a new issuer, called Transnistria Governorate, where the WWII occupation banknotes circulated:

To give some reasons:

• There is no direct historic continuity:
⮡ Governorate: 19 August 1941 - 29 January 1944
⮡ Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic: 5 November 1991 - date

• the occupied territory and population are significantly different:
⮡ Governorate: 42,000 km² / 2.3 million inhabitants
⮡ Republic: 4,100 km² / 469,000 inhabitants

• different capitals:
⮡ Governorate: Odessa (in modern-day Ukraine)
⮡ Republic: Tiraspol

I am inclined to list Transnistria Governorate under Ukraine, as 90% of its territory, its capital, and 80% of its population was Ukrainian. The Governorate was not the result of the self-determination of the Pridnestrovian community, and there was no collective identity. It was simply Ukrainian territory occupied and administered by Romania. So based on this, I propose:

Ukraine
⮡ Transnistria Governorate
⮡ Ukraine

I am pretty confident that this is the most sensible solution, given the historical perspective. However, I can see how this might generate some confusion for users, so listing the Governorate as a separate issuer under Transnistria would be historically wrong, but may be functionally better.

In any case, I vote for a new issuer under Ukraine. It would be great if users also understand a bit more about the history of this region.

Best

I think that creating a new issuer is the best way to do it. Listing it under Transnistria may be a better solution then Ukraine, in that case the banknotes should be removed from Romania and Transnistria. Not everybody knows the historic context and finding those notes could be difficult if listed under Ukraine.

Good point. Now that stratocaster has mentioned it, a separate issued would be better for this purpose. Listing it under Ukraine would make the most sense.

Another point: Transnistria is listed under Modern States with Limited Recognition.

So the Governorate really does not belong under Transnistria as it is not a modern state.

It is probably better to list them under Ukraine...It's not like it says TRANSNISTRIA all over them.

Listing them under 'Moldova' would be better - as what is now Moldova was part of the Kingdom of Romania from 1918 to 1940 as Bessarabia.

Aidan.

So what’s that have to do with anything? Bessarabia is the territory bounded by the Prut at west and Dniester at east. Transnistian Governorate was a teritory between the Dniester and Southern Bug. Nowadays the largest part of this territory is in Ukraine. But you have to disagree everytime don’t you?

When I added the notes in the Transnistrian catalogue I wasn't aware they were already in the Romanian catalogue - if they were. But you do what you think is best, but I'd say either Romania or Moldova if you decide to move them.

The Transnistria Governorate was a territory of 42.000 km², nowadays Transnistria is just over 4.000 km². The difference is now Ukrainian territory including the city of Odessa. I said the same, list them under Moldova or Transnistria, but it doesn't make sense. You can't list them under Romania because all other occupation banknotes are listed under the occupied territory. At the time of the Romanian occupation, Moldova was a part of Romania, so the banknotes didn't circulate on this territory, so there is no point listing them under Moldova either. As for Transnistria...as stratocaster said :"Transnistria is listed under Modern States with Limited Recognition" and the Governorate wasn't. Ukraine is the best solution in my opinion.

Please don't include Ukraine here, since Ukraine was under German rule. Then we could just add them under Germany and ut would make equal sence.

From Wikioedia:
The Transnistria Governorate (Romanian: Guvernământul Transnistriei) was a Romanian-administered territory between the Dniester and Southern Bug, conquered by the Axis Powers from the Soviet Union during Operation Barbarossa and occupied from 19 August 1941 to 29 January 1944. Limited in the west by the Dniester river (separating it from Bessarabia), in the east by the Southern Bug river (separating it from the German Reichskommissariat Ukraine), and in the south by the Black Sea, it comprised the present-day region of Transnistria (which compared to the World War II whole is only a small strip along the bank of the Dniester) and territories further east (modern Odessa Oblast eastward of the Dniester and southern Vinnytsia Oblast), including the Black Sea port of Odessa, which became the administrative capital of Transnistria during World War II.

So, keep them in the Transnitrian catalogue or put them in the Romanian catalogue. But definitely not Ukraine.

The fact that Ukraine was under German and Romanian occupation makes no difference, it was still Ukraine then as it is now.
- German occupation of Ukraine notes are listed under Ukraine
- German occupation of Romania notes are under Romania
- Why would we list Romanian occupation of Ukraine notes under Romania? we have many other similar situations.

The modern Transnistria and the WW2 Transnistria are distinct polities. Hope this map will clarify:


Best

That map should be enough to clarify were the banknotes belong.

We definitely need to delete something; however, it seems this thread turned more into an issuer creation thread than a page modification thread. Perhaps the poster can change the ticket to a country creation?

I would definitely support making the Transnistria Governorate its own issuer (and I would prefer to see it under Ukraine, based on its geography).

And whenever an issuer is made, the notes will have a proper place to go--the best ones can be moved and the duplicates can be deleted.

Ticket changed to country creation. Thank you!

Hello

I just added the Transnistria Governorate.

I sent requests for all notes to be moved.

They would still need to be merged